To be angry with Justine Roberts

[T1mum3]

For saying on Jamie Oliver's facebook live chat that we should tell children in primary schools that they will lose a limb due to diabetes if they don't eat right? I'm angry because amongst primary school age children in the UK 5355 have Type 1 diabetes, and 7 have Type 2. Type 1 is autoimmune so not related to lifestyle.

All those kids will be fighting day and night, taking around 6 injections a day or wearing an insulin pump (putting a cannula in every two days), pricking their fingers 10 times a day and counting every single morsel of carbohydrate that passes their lips to try and keep themselves well enough to go to school and take exercise. They don't need to know about amputations yet.

99 per cent of children with diabetes have Type 1. They are made more vulnerable to bullying everyday because of the obsession with childhood obesity.

Anyone who hasn't got the message about healthy diets and kids yet obviously needs some kind of intervention. Type 2 diabetes is a huge and growing issue. But making diabetes and amputations into a boogy man to scare small children is disgusting.

I think op and Justine both have very valid points. It's developed into a worthy discussion without animosity. I'm sure Justine can respond in public about comments made in public.

I don't think anyone is denying the need for health education and provision to make healthy eating possible for all.

But I for one agree with the OP and PP that the reference that was made to diabetes was wrong on many levels.

oldboot completely agree about lecturing without helping. One of the proposals is that prepackaged food should be slowly reformulated to reduce salt and sugar so that we all start eating better wherever we buy our food from. Plus better healthier food available in schools is in there and that would help too. I know I struggle to stop my DCs buying rubbish now that they're at secondary and making their own choices in the canteen (although DC2 manages to consume the odd fruit salad alongside his pizza)

Oh dear.

YANBU. This is why 'well-meaning' but hopelessly muddled people should be discouraged from taking their hobby horses out for a ride.

I don't hate Jamie Oliver - I think what he tried to do with school dinners was really great and with soft drinks.

But like OldBootNewBoots I see parallels with bf.

I'm with flying - education is one thing, but pressure needs to be applied on retailers to make healthier foods more affordable to low income families. In my local supermarket, a bag of white rice can be bought for 39p - brown rice, on the other hand, is £1.79. Why does the processed stuff cost more than the whole grain products?

A punnet of grapes/strawberries/blueberries is usually around £2, whereas you can buy a value pack of chocolate digestives for 25p.

And if you are gluten intolerant, then the prices rocket....

You make the comparison between sex education and health/nutrition education. In that scenario, what you suggested (whether you meant one kind or another) is a bit like telling children that if they are gay they are going to die of AIDS, rather than talking about sexuality in a positive, constructive way about relationships, safe sex and consent.

I absolutely agree, OP. YANBU at all!!

And yes, it's a shame that children with diabetes get bullied! (I'm not saying type 2 children should be bullied either, btw. A child is obese because the parents aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing...)

I see many parallels in the anti smoking campaigns. People said it couldn't be done, but the smoking rates have plummeted. There is much less heart disease than twenty years ago.

what would help is some sort of a website where you could meal plan and choose 5 simple dinners that could be made by a teenager or a busy parent with max 10-15 mins prep and download a shopping list for your selections to your smart phone. Something like that might be useful.

I do admire JO for trying- it's more than many sleb chefs do, and he can't help being middle class and successful.

It's a pity the sugar tax didn't go through- there are so many cheap doughnuts, cookies, soft drinks, available between the school and thr bus stop.

Maybe JO could look into making youtube videos where he takes a few cheap food items and adds a few different twists to it to make a couple different healthier meals to appeal to different people, but keeping it very low budget. If he did something like this on youtube - just shorter videos - it could be free and accessible for anyone, rather than in an expensive book that might financially be out of reach to those who have a very tight budget. He could easily have the recipe and the shopping list available on the video or a link to his website.

Recently diagnosed type 2. And it is probably a genetic issue with me. Also mets lots of people on courses who are not overweight. Getting really tired of all the shame associated with type 2. It's a really scary disease and the perception that it is self inflicted through overeating makes it worse.

My friend is the same.

The shaming and blaming of those with T2 isn't fair imo.

Thanks T1Mum that was my understanding and I'm glad to see its not wrong.

I think Justine does have a point about healthy eating and JO has been proactive in trying to teach children about nutrition. I am certainly not going to criticise them in their ideals for childhood nutrition. Even if I don't agree with every single sentiment they use to do so.

Scare tactics may not be the way to go but I think most people agree something has to be done to teach children the right foods and more importantly how to cook from basic ingredients. Most sauces come from jars which contain a lot of not so good stuff. Whereas its often cheaper in the long run to buy all the basic ingredients and cook properly with them (most of the time it is cheaper, but I'll admit not everything is).

Also my child has a complex type of diabetes linked to another medical condition - so the sugars need to be controlled and yet my child still has a high fat/high sugar diet. I've stopped reading about nutrition (we have a qualified dietician advising us anyway) and have to explain myself a lot when I tell people my child has diabetes but still has to have a large bar of chocolate. Nutrition for some children is very complicated but this shouldn't stop the masses of children from eating healthily.

If we believe sex education is important in schools why not health / nutrition information?

Because it isn't taught in a helpful way and information given is inaccurate. The demonising of certain foods and black and white 'healthy' vs 'unhealthy' diets is simplistic and contributes to Eating Disorders (which incidentally children with T1 are ten times more susceptible to).

Because stigmatising overweight children in the classroom contributes to bullying .

Because damaging a person's self esteem by playing the blame game never helped anyone lose weight.

Also, yes, there is a high rate of diabetes related amputations. But you are equating the development of T2 Diabetes with poor diet. It is one risk factor. Causation is multifactorial. And there are far more obese people who don't develop T2 than those who do.

To the person who said that amputations can result from T1 as well as T2 and that control is important...yes and no.

Control is important but it is affected by far more than just diet.

And "eating healthily" won't control blood sugar. The grapes in the pp's example would be more of an issue than the chocolate biscuits to someone who doesn't make insulin.

I very very saddened to read this. Clearly the main point hasn't been taken on board: not only was the phrasing bad, but the original sentiment is not only factually incorrect, but damaging.

Yes many children are overweight. Yes the UK has an obesity problem. Healthy eating education is very important for children.

But to jump from that to.... diabetes and ted bogeyman is going to amputate both your feet is ....

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

Justine's previous post clearly missed thus entirely.

If you want to go onto TV and talk about how to educate children, healthy eating, fine no problem. I don't have a problem with that.

but don't go onto TV and talk about diabetes. talk about type one children who like previous posters of said maybe on a pump maybe testing many many times each day, trying to void hypos.

The world needs educating on how hard it actually is for these children. Not by talking about amputating.
You certainly haven't helped the cause, for educating joe public on what childhood diabetes is like.

and then to talk about amputating body parts - the jump from one to another is disgrace.

From a type 1, since near birth, so for over 40 years, been on a pump for 15.

I have visited an ICU for the last 3 weeks and was astonished at the number of patients in their 40s or younger, with severe life-threatening complications caused by their diabetes. None of them were amputations.

I also saw lots of visitors chomping their way through high-fat high-sugar foods sold by the Costa Coffee franchise in the hospital. There were very few things on their menu that were healthy. There was also a vending machine full of fizzy drinks and sweets in the ICU waiting room. The government and NHS really need to address the diabetes problem NOW as it's a ticking time bomb.

So yes to a campaign to educate people (especially younger people) about unhealthy eating and the consequences. Maybe Justine was a little clumsy but at least it's started a discussion.

And quoting that information is misleading.

Yes there may be 135 amputees per week.

But why is that? Are they children? No. normally older patients. Diabetic care used to be not as good. Plus these people have a variety of Health issues, many with very late onset type 2 diabetes, amongst other conditions, that results in a amputation.

If you have a concern About how type 2, and also obesity is costing the NHS millions and might cripple the NHS in time, then have the bollocks to be direct in what you are saying,
On a tv programme designated to that,
Instead of this misrepresentation, under the guise of childhood diabetes.

There is something to be said for the fact that those who are 50+ now that have had diabetes since childhood likely had much different circumstances (care, support, medical/dietary advice) to what children are given now, due to medical advances and such.

@user5318008

Instilling fear into children about their eating habits is stupid regardless of linking it to any particular condition because most children aren't doing their family's food shopping. Talking about a healthy, balanced diet? Great. Stressing them out that they're going to become seriously ill because of the choices their parents make? Stupid.

Evidence shows that childhood habits are key for later life eating and like it or not once your child is a certain age (in my case about 10) they increasingly will be making their own choices about what they eat. Sugar is highly addictive and let's face it, it's hard for adults let alone kids to resist it. Not teaching children about the importance of nutrition and the consequences of bad nutrition is, to my mind, pretty irresponsible.

@T1mum3

Justscreammumsnet - thank you for your apology, I think.... Will you be sharing this on the Jamie Oliver site also?

You make the comparison between sex education and health/nutrition education. In that scenario, what you suggested (whether you meant one kind or another) is a bit like telling children that if they are gay they are going to die of AIDS, rather than talking about sexuality in a positive, constructive way about relationships, safe sex and consent.

I think it's like telling teens that if they don't practice safe sex there's a range of nasty potential health consequences, yes.

@AntiHop

These illnesses really need renaming to avoid this confusion.

I agree!

Firstly, scaring children about food is utterly wrong on all levels. I have an anorexic teenage daughter, the number of 'scary' messages that she has taken on board is HUGE and massively damaging - not all heard whilst she's been poorly, most are stored from the rubbish healthy eating advice dished out in schools (I'm a teacher!). 'Healthy eating' is a red herring. Balanced eating is by far the most healthy form of eating for the vast majority of people. Children who grow up afraid of food do not make healthy adults.

The added trouble with bashing the 'healthy eating' drum around diabetes is that the NHS has no clue what that actually means! I have recently had gestational diabetes and the NHS advice was utter tripe. If I'd followed the 'low fat, eat weetabix, don't forget your fruit' diet my levels would have been astronomical, even on insulin!

Poor show Justine, on many levels. I have no clue if you have any direct experience of diabetes, eating issues or nutritional training but I'd hazard a guess not or your comment wouldn't have passed your lips...(Unless you're an NHS nutritionist!).

@perfumedlife

"If we believe sex education is important in primary schools, why not health/nutrition education?" Excellent point Justine but of course getting the correct advice from a GP is always going to be tricky when they themselves are given very limited education in it at medical school. Add to that the chaotic approach to Carbohydrates by Diabetes UK and it's safe to say it's the blind leading the blind.

It's true that to become a doctor you train for 7 years but learning about nutrition is an optional not a compulsory part of the course. This is another thing Jamie Oliver is campaigning on - to incorporate nutrition into the training, which has got to be sensible.