To be angry with Justine Roberts

[T1mum3]

For saying on Jamie Oliver's facebook live chat that we should tell children in primary schools that they will lose a limb due to diabetes if they don't eat right? I'm angry because amongst primary school age children in the UK 5355 have Type 1 diabetes, and 7 have Type 2. Type 1 is autoimmune so not related to lifestyle.

All those kids will be fighting day and night, taking around 6 injections a day or wearing an insulin pump (putting a cannula in every two days), pricking their fingers 10 times a day and counting every single morsel of carbohydrate that passes their lips to try and keep themselves well enough to go to school and take exercise. They don't need to know about amputations yet.

99 per cent of children with diabetes have Type 1. They are made more vulnerable to bullying everyday because of the obsession with childhood obesity.

Anyone who hasn't got the message about healthy diets and kids yet obviously needs some kind of intervention. Type 2 diabetes is a huge and growing issue. But making diabetes and amputations into a boogy man to scare small children is disgusting.

I can't read any more.

Justine doesn't seem to understand that it's wrong to demonise people with type 2 (obesity being risk factor rather than cause of diabetes, a point made by a number of posters) - hence the stress she puts on the fact that she's only shaming people with type 2, not type 1.

She has NO FUCKING IDEA how offensive she is being to those of us with type 2 who don't fall into her junk food eating, non-exercising, obese stereotype. Those of us who are struggling to manage our blood sugar levels through no fault of our own.

Here's an idea, if you don't know what you're talking about, how about you keep your stupid ideas to yourself?

Out of interest, have smoking rates plummeted amongst the poor?

Jamie Oliver gets on my tits. He pontificates about issues such as childhood obesity and poor nutrition with utter disregard to wider issues such as poverty and simple access to good shopping, transport, food storage, fuel costs and the cost of kitchen utensils.

Yet every time he pops up on MN people say: 'Aw! But his heart is in the right place.'

Maybe it is, but his head is not. He demonises the poor, employs hysterical scare tactics such as amputation or tooth extraction to try to bulldoze opposition and throws his toys out of the pram when people don't do what he wants.

I don't think it was at all helpful for Justine to engage in a discussion about diabetes with reference to possible outcomes such as amputations. Neither is it helpful to get into the territory of Type 1 and Type 2. That reminds me of the Good HIV patients who got it through blood products and the Bad ones who fucked around.

I also think it's wrong to use that universal get out clause: But Won't People Think Of The NHS? to justify dropping a clanger,

I have not posted before but feel the need to add that type 2 diabetes can be genetic.
Myself and my siblings have a one in three chance of becoming diabetic as we age as my mother,grandfather and other relatives had it.
With this it does not matter if you are overweight you still can become diabetic and the unfortunate stigma associated with type 2 diabetics never takes genetics into account

Sorry I meant you do not have to be overweight or obese. if you have the gene you can still become diabetic

Out of interest, have smoking rates plummeted amongst the poor?

Can't find year on year data but the general consensus is 'no'.

Thanks, Pube - very interesting.

Indeed about genetic factors and type 2 - there also increased risks amongst certain ethnic groups. According to our PDSN (specialist diabetes nurse) the rare cases of type 2 in children tend to be from specific ethnic groups.

My type 1 child is well aware of the risks of diabetes. He knows he has to be careful because of the risks of amputations/damage to eyes etc. But on a positive note - the advances in treatment since he was diagnosed nearly 2 years ago are immense and I am very hopeful that within the next few years he won't be injecting insulin in the same way as he does now.

I have meteorically high cholesterol that is brought down by statins to just a bit above average. It's genetics, not diet. In fact my doctor says my 'good' cholesterol and diet are excellent and asked me for cooking tips last time we discussed this.

I'm sure ignorant people think I stuff my face with Greggs. But if I did, so what?

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it does anger people with myriad health conditions, diabetes being one, to have people who don't know what they're talking about not letting that stop them talking about it.

Health education around diabetes needs to be about educating and empowering people to take control of their diabetes not by using fear and blame

I think that it just feels very unfair with type one as it is mostly children who are diagnosed with it. To then get the criticism about it being due to them eating crap when they're already dealing with a massive thing is pretty rough.

My step father is type 2 and slim - again lots of type 2 in his family. He however has followed the blood sugar diet and dramatically reduced his insulin reliance. But I know you need to be in the right mental space to be able to do something like that.

Just generally a better understanding and more sympathy for anyone with diabetes would be a good thing.

this is a very good piece by Caitlin Moran on why people overeat.

I suspect Jamie Oliver has led a pretty charmed life and he just lacks any understanding of what a lot of people go through.

People overeat for many reasons - and it isn't because they're lazy or stupid.

I have type 1 and get fed up trying to explain the difference between the two. Some people just assume I have caused my diabetes, rather than it being an autoimmune condition which I couldn't have prevented.

In fact smoking as a whole hasn't done much serious plummeting since the 1980's - early 90's. It did a bit of dipping in the 2000's, up until the smoking ban, then it levelled off, even rising slightly in 2008.

BTW if anyone wants to experience a bit more about what it is like to live with T1D for a day, they can sign up here

Justine - perhaps this is something you and Jamie Oliver might like to consider doing to help you understand a bit more about what people with diabetes experience every day and maybe help moderate messages about childhood diabetes a bit more effectively? (I don't think it includes other children shouting "get away diabetes" or "die dia, you ate too much sugar" but if you would like to experience this part of the day I can organise something...)

Do we all know what the biggest cost for the NHS is? Mental health. And what's the government cutting funding for? Mental health.

The problem is that it is much cheaper to eat shit food than good food. Plus we have an increasing culture of ready meals and takeaways. Unless that is tackled (and let's not forget that we are behind the US, Australia, NZ and Canada in the obesity tables, not to mention Mexico, Chile and Hungary), we are going to keep getting fatter.

Education about nutrition is dreadful in schools. It's ill-informed and cursory.

If the government wants to tackle the rising costs in the NHS, then it needs to address root causes but it's much easier (and cheaper) to demonise vulnerable groups

Mrscampbellblack - I love the way Caitlin Moran writes about eating, but adult overeating and how she describes her relationship with food in her childhood. Ironically the bit about "Overeating is the addiction of choice of "carers," and that's why it's come to be regarded as the lowest-ranking of all the addictions" describes me since my son's T1D diagnosis. Waking up three times a night to look after him so having that exhausted newborn hunger, having to stay within easy distance form his school because they can't administer the glucagon and the last time I went further he went 2.4 double down on the playground and no-one found him until I called (he has G5) so I'm scared to go for a swim, trying to eat away the anger and anxiety because he's excluded from his residential and no longer invited on playdates... I don't drink because I have to look after him in the night. A year on from DX I'm starting to get a handle on it, but, yes, I totally recognise those reasons for my weight gain.

My first ever mumsnet deletion.

Proud.

I would like to hear Justine's thoughts on how her comments conflict with the MN 'This is my child' campaign; what do you think about the impact of your words for those children who are suffering from diabetes right now, justine? Given that you can't sort out one type of diabetes from another so very few others will?

Coming after the highly unsatisfactory dialogue about disablism on mumsnet recently, this has highlighted a deep insensitivity to illness at the very top of MN.

It seems very telling that the question Justine chose not to address was the one I've repeated in this post - what does her position on diabetes mean for children who have diabetes? The question is a crucial one but clearly not worthy of an answer from Justine.

The message seems to be that the well-being of sick children is secondary to the welfare of children who are not ill. (Not that the 'your limbs will drop off' argument is likely to work anyway - haven't we learnt anything from years of research into the psychology of addiction?)

Yet MN is supposed to be about supporting parents primarily, some of whom will have poorly children. Not saving the world or tackling childhood obesity or anything else. Supporting parents who need support. Parents like the OP need and deserve it more than anyone else IMO - although of course their appreciation is less glamorous and interesting than being seated on a panel with Jamie Oliver.

OP, that photo of your DS is very moving. I'm so sorry for what you go through

I have a friend who is a diabetic consultant and she says she would rather have hiv than diabetes, that's how serious a disease it is. I think if people heard that they may take diabetes more seriously.

plenty it's the plummeting smoking rates twenty - thirty years ago that have now shown in the decrease in heart disease. There is a time lag don't forget.

People are are 'victim blaming' diabetics with type two as the automatic assumption is that if you are diabetic you bought it on yourself.
I think there should perhaps be different names or more education of the public as there are a lot of people out there like myself who are type two or will become type two even though the have done all the right things. I am not overweight and eat healthily but should I develop diabetes because of my families genetic predisposition I will be very wary of disclosing my condition as the common view seems to be you bought it on yourself. People should research more carefullybefore making sweeping statements about diet etc

I'm aware of that, Head, not sure what your point is?

Smoking rates were running at about 50% overall in 1970. Your tables do show at least a decrease to approx 20%. I think that is significant.

Please take heed your staff, even the highest members need Diversity training. It's time to face the fact that you are prejudiced, calassist and outright offensive towards minorities and it's time to try and fix that.

PLEASE start listening to what your users are telling you.