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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel jealous of friends/family able to educate their kids privately

253 replies

NewDay10 · 31/10/2016 08:57

Just that really. I know IABU to feel this way. I could go back to work and pay school fees and educate my kids privately. We've chosen for me to be a SAHM. I've just been looking at Facebook and can't believe how many of my friends educate their kids at prep level privately. Also I don't know how they afford it?! E.g. One couple both are teachers (state school) but still educate their kids privately. I'm feeling bitter. IABU and need to be happy as it really is a first world problem. We have great state schools here. I also know this debate has been done so many times on MN! So sorry to the veterans!

OP posts:
holme4andy · 31/10/2016 22:51

You are quite right 'Bertrand' saying use the best available state schools , yet you would find building more of the best state schools repellent !

"Shes never set foot in a state school"

This unfortunate statement of course would not have been said if the state offered appropriate schools.

There are hardly any Private Schools in Northern Ireland , infact the would be Public Schools are state Schools

www.campbellcollege.co.uk

I wonder why nobody bothers with Private education in Northern Ireland.

Facts speak for themselves don't they Bertrand.

For Gods sake if you want all people to use state education, give them the correct options !

If you did offer them, 'Public'/Private schools would be just for Rich Foreigners and social climbing Snobs!

Nobody would need to send their children there , to get the desired education.

Aibohphobia · 01/11/2016 01:54

NataliaOsipova and arethereanyleftatall

That photo of the privately educated children on a visit to the slums has made me feel sick. What do you think they are - some kind of zoo exhibition? If you are going to go, then go and help. Really help.

Getting away from the ridiculous hyperbole, it's shame you didn't / couldn't read a little more carefully. We help enormously. It wasn't a photography walk. It was younger children who visited this time and did simply play with the children and provide some respite. There were donations too.

Our school provides equipment to a charity which also educates children. Last year we donated rice to the school. As many parents can't afford for their children to be at school and not earning an income for the family, we pay the children in rice. Older children who go to the area have done wonderful things and this year installed special skylights made of bottles filled with water / chlorine in people's homes. Only a small thing but it makes a difference.

I hope this meets with your insignificant approval.

You two have clearly found your inner smugness, but it was misplaced and a sad reflection on your own issues.

GetAHaircutCarl · 01/11/2016 06:38

bertrand I think you're completely wrong about which private schools are 'worth' it or not.

It completely depends what the state alternatives are, but in any event some of the no-big-name private schools offer superb value for money.

My DD attended one from 11-16 and, seriously, it was the best pretty green I ever spent. And not cheap - 6k a term plus.

The opportunities on offer were astounding, the pastoral care amazing and the results were incredible considering that it is not selective.

She has now moved, and is, with her brother at a Big Name public school, and I still in retrospect cannot fault her previous school.

When people ask me my views on it ( and they often do because were swamped with good state schools, accessible grammars and very selective private schools here) I say 'sell your kidney for a place' and I'm only half joking.

GetAHaircutCarl · 01/11/2016 06:45

arethereanyleftatall I feel vey queasy about the middle class parents on MN who feel that mixing with disadvantaged children at school somehow makes their DC better people.

Having been that disadvantaged child my first thought to those suggestions is 'do one'.

cedricsneer · 01/11/2016 06:53

My experience is 3 As at A level from public school, 2 degrees, postgrad degree and no great career to speak of. Ambition was never fostered by family (or really my Home Counties boarding school). It took a long time to muddle through some identity issues (e.g. Sense of entitlement/snobbery etc).

My kids are at primary state and we have just decided to send them to state secondary (we could afford private). They are engaged, happy and successful so far. Couldn't be happier with my choice.

cedricsneer · 01/11/2016 06:54

I am, however, just launching a career I couldn't be happier with at the age of 38!

NewDay10 · 01/11/2016 06:58

Good luck Cedricsneer. I try my best not to underestimate the impact of me being home with the kids. Especially for my toddler

OP posts:
cedricsneer · 01/11/2016 07:02

I have been a SAHM until all kids were at school and it has definitely been the right choice for us. But if I have learned anything, it's how different we all are and I really try not to be judgemental about other's choices.

I live somewhere that 30% send their kids to private school, so I have battled with all the same issues as you, but I am so glad that things have panned out the way they have. So far so good for us.

DinosaursRoar · 01/11/2016 07:08

Op - when their dcs were pre-school, did you question how they afforded nursery fees? Most are over £1k a month, so it's hardly surprising they set their family expenditure to cover a "spare" £12k+ a year per child at pre-school level that they can "easily" continue to pay it out at school age. You and your DH aren't used to that level of expense for dcs care, so they school fees would be a shock.

If you are happy with your dcs school, then accept you have made different choices. If not, many preps do have an intake at year 3, so perhaps look to go back to work.

Few people are rich enough not to make any compromises- if you are to be a SAHM, you have lost an option, whether you'd pick that option anyway is a different issue.

NataliaOsipova · 01/11/2016 09:25

Our school provides equipment to a charity which also educates children. Last year we donated rice to the school. As many parents can't afford for their children to be at school and not earning an income for the family, we pay the children in rice. Older children who go to the area have done wonderful things and this year installed special skylights made of bottles filled with water / chlorine in people's homes. Only a small thing but it makes a difference.

Aibophobia I don't think we are the ones with the inner smugness. My kids' school did pretty much the same thing (different country, substitute the rice for sheep - you get the drift). I'm an insider on this sort of thing - I know exactly what you're talking about. But - I still contend - these trips are run by private schools as a marketing tool. Parents pay to send their children (and, of course, the staff) to impoverished areas because they want to buy that travel experience for their children. I don't like that, personally, but I wouldn't judge you for it. What I do judge is dressing it up as charity and altruism. I obviously don't know the numbers for your school's trip, but I think my DD's school sent 20 of the older kids for 10 days at a cost of around £3k a head. £60k spent on going out there - not one penny of which went to that school. It went to an airline, a hotel, on food etc etc. It was spent on a holiday, albeit one with some educational value. You could put a 1% surcharge on the fees and send that £60k to the school for them to buy rice/sheep or whatever. That would be transformational. That would "really help". But it wouldn't be popular with the parents. What my kids' school did (and, from what you say, your school does) is - yes, raise a bit of money for charity (which, clearly, is good) but basically offer a long haul school trip.

In the same way - I took my kids to a performance at the theatre last week. The profits went to Great Ormond Street. They had collection buckets at the end. I spent £120 on tickets and I put a tenner in the bucket on the way out. Should I give myself a huge pat on the back for supporting sick children less fortunate than my own? No. I bought a nice day out for my children. If my motivation had been to support GOSH, I should have given them the £130 and stayed at home. Is it good that GOSH benefitted from, say, £25 of our day out? Of course. But it's pretty rich to try to make out that our day our was some sort of great act of altruism. And I think that's the trap you fall into when extolling the virtues of the sort of school trip you describe.

Bluntness100 · 01/11/2016 09:38

To be clear here, my comment on her never setting foot inside a state school wasn't meant the way it was taken, simply that I meant she had always been privately educated, I was educated, as was my husband at state school. I should have written it better, so apologies if it offended anyone.

I am unsure this argument is about the benefit of state v private, both have their advantages and disadvatages and there is no right or wrong answer, it's a personal choice. I thought the discussion was about the fact the op could send her kids to private school, but was deliberately choosing not to and felt jealous of those that did and wanted to know if this was unreasonable.

Having grown up in a council house, I chose a different direction for my own child, and worked damned hard to do it, I am the main bread winner, my money, my child, my choice as hubby had no strong feelings either way. Plenty of my friends did the opposite and their kids went to state school. Do I feel my daighter got a better education, yes, I could see the differences in approach and support that is given to kids, because of the simple fact state schools usually have larger class sizes and less resources. Are they all better, nope, some private schools aren't so good, and some state schools are excellent.

Life is full of crap choices, we simply have to play the best hand we can with what we are dealt, or change the cards.

Bumpsadaisie · 01/11/2016 09:46

There is such a fetish about education in this country. I suppose if you pay for private you need to be convinced that it is really very very much better for your child than the state option otherwise what is the point of the sacrifice (and it is a sacrifice for most) involved in order to afford it.

But there are perfectly decent state schools from which it is perfectly possible to do really well. Our local grammars are some of the most academic schools in the country sending loads off to Oxbridge and other top places every year. Our local comp sent 6 to Oxbridge last year plus a host of others to other really good universities. I myself went to Cambridge from that very school without much bother and I am no exceptional genius, just an ordinarily bright kid with supportive parents. We certainly weren't applying for Mensa and doing "improving activities" in every spare moment.

I haven't ruled out private for my children, though we would need a massive bursary. I am particularly interested in the idea of them going to board for sixth form.

I have a lot of friends with children who are signed up for very smart senior schools (Eton, Winchester, Westminster and so on). If I feel envious (because granted these schools do look amazing) I remind myself of the huge good fortune we have to live somewhere where education is free and good and where a child with caring and supportive parents should always be able to succeed. If we lived in the third world I would be deciding whether I could possibly afford to keep my daughter at school or whether to withdraw her as I needed her money. So be thankful, people, and keep a sense of perspective when considering what is in this country a hugely emotional and loaded issue.

Aibohphobia · 01/11/2016 13:03

NataliaOsipova

It was short haul and I believe the cost was around £200 per person. We got reduced flights and the airline wrote about the project in its magazine. The amount donated was in the 10s of thousands.

There's a mutual benefit for all involved. I'm not sure that there's any such thing as absolute altruism and that's a debate for another thread but I have been riled here by the reverse snobbery and felt the need to add detail to my school's charitable work.

BertrandRussell · 01/11/2016 14:23

Natalya, I so agree. It's not just private schools, obviously, but they are the worst culprits. I am frequently forced to allow my bags to be packed in Sainsbury's by teenagers raising money for their trip to "help build a school in Tanzania". I always want to say "put all the money together, and use it to pay people on the ground to build the bloody thing!"

I am always a bit Hmm at the "oh we let out local schools use our pool every second Friday" too. O

LockedOutOfMN · 01/11/2016 14:43

OP, I'm a teacher at an independent school. Please don't feel as if your children are getting a worse education or experience by not being educated privately. Firstly, without wishing to appear patronising, every school and every child is different.

I know this is only my personal belief, but I'll share it anyway in the hope that it will reassure you. There is so much you can do to "educate" your children outside of school: reading, visiting places (many museums etc. are free on certain days or for school-aged children; these don't have to be exotic, faraway locations), family discussions and interest in the world around you, as well as extracurricular music, sport, drama, etc. Take an interest in what your children are learning at school (I'm sure you do already) and discuss and research related topics at home, get them thinking, talking and questioning, and they won't have missed out.

Hope the tone of this post comes across as intended. Not meaning to patronise. Private schools can offer great opportunities, as can state schools, but children do spend most of their lives at home and therefore a stimulating home-life is more important than anything. Just my opinion.

BertrandRussell · 01/11/2016 15:05

If I was going to send my children to a private school (ooh, look-there's a pig flying past a blue moon Grin it would be for the "extras". The cultural capital, if you like. All stuff you can provide at home if it's important to you, but it would sometimes be very nice just to pay someone else to do it! That's why I hold to the view that only some private schools are worth it.

BertrandRussell · 01/11/2016 15:07

Sorry- pressed send too soon-a private school that does not provide huge amounts of value added in terms of cultural capital isn't with the money.

autumnintheair · 01/11/2016 15:29

Having been that disadvantaged child my first thought to those suggestions is 'do one

Getahaircutcarl, I find your posts really interesting, you said you were the disadvantaged child?
Many posters on these sorts of threads have said they are disadvnatged or were and would also do anything to give their own DC a better experience at school.

autumnintheair · 01/11/2016 15:34

locked I agree with you.
However from 8.30 am to 3.30 pm is a long day if your a child and stuck somewhere you don't fit trying to get by.
I was that child and I was moved. The difference was astounding. Life is short, if you can put your DC somewhere you know they would be happier who on earth wouldn't?
I cant afford private but we have some cosy homely private schools around us, my dc do lessons for dance at one, and Its lovely.
However we are super lucky that our state primary is also cosy, homely and is giving DD an excellent all round education with extra curricular too. If we came into money - right now I would very happily leave her where she is and I am open to private and so on. Many parents do not have this luxury though.

autumnintheair · 01/11/2016 15:39

Parents pay to send their children (and, of course, the staff) to impoverished areas because they want to buy that travel experience for their children

But isnt this true of every charity endeavor to another country?

All these cycling in Rio for charity etc? I know someone who does it - she is such a martyr the poor thing being flown to rio, and having a lovely cycling holiday - the kind soul and its all for chariddee.

SpunkyMummy · 01/11/2016 15:53

autumn

Isn't that something positive? She gets a nice holiday and it's for some sort of charity benefit?

We used to do that at a school I went to. For every km of hiking parents pledged to pay a certain amount to a charity.

autumnintheair · 01/11/2016 16:37

For a child yes I was thinking about adults, then behaving like martyrs when the truth is they are getting funded to go on a nice holiday

GetAHaircutCarl · 01/11/2016 16:56

bertrand I jus don't see how any family could replicate the opportunities on offer at my DC's schools.

There just would never be the time, availability, energy and critical mass of effective people.

I'm a pretty hands on parent with oodles of verve, money, access and availability. But I'm just human after all Wink. One pair of hands and all that.

autumn I was indeed a very disadvantaged child. Well loved, but we were very poor. Both my parents left school at 15. My mother is profoundly dyslexic and struggles with literacy ( her texts are a wonder to behold). No one in my entire extended family ( and we are legion) had stayed at school beyond 16.

No doubt we were considered a problem family by many.

I am committed to providing the very best education for my own DC and also improving access to tertiary education for current young people. A conundrum. But as the Chinese say, may you live in interesting times.

shovetheholly · 01/11/2016 17:01

You can't 'learn' about poverty by a visit or two, or a short holiday any more than you can understand a foreign country in a week's visit. Just as you have to speak the language to understand another culture, you need to see the impacts on a day-to-day basis, feel the struggles, understand it from the inside. That's the advantage of a fully socially mixed education.

You literally cannot buy access across the social chasm that now exists between large swathes of the middle class and the poor, which is reinforced both by fee-paying schools and by postcode selection to state schools. It's a kind of knowledge that isn't prized enough, and its absence can be felt every single day not only on this forum, but also in professions that are dominated by the middle classes, that remain blind to the assumptions they make and the prejudices they hold, to the petty snobberies that pass as humour or even the romanticization that is cluelessly doe-eyed.

The epistemic gap is vast, and it's creating all kinds of political and social problems.

SpunkyMummy · 01/11/2016 17:03

autumn

We were (probably?) 16 and went hiking in the Swiss alps.

get I think that's admirable. My parents come from a different background and my mother, well, she tried her best. But she was too unstable and father wasn't at home enough to really notice. It's interesting that family like yours would be seen as problem families. Whereas families like mine just fell through the cracks...