To finally demand DH stops working night shifts?

[Friesontheside]

He has done forever. It's a shift pattern of days and nights. 7 in a row. Leaves the house at 4:45 and gets in at 7:45. We have three dc: a 6 month old who has never slept for longer than two hours, a 3 year old who is always tired but very difficult at bedtime and an 8 yr old who is pretty much free range downstairs from 7pm due to prolonged bedtime attempts with the little ones. Too much iPad, not enough homework etc.

I'm on maternity leave ATM so we are dependent on DH's wage. I earn about half what he earns when I work FT. I feel he could find work in his industry that does not involve such long night shifts and I'm sure we could take a hit financially, especially if I went back FT too. I know 'this too shall pass' re: small children not sleeping but I spend hours every night trying to get them into bed, and am then woken constantly by the baby. I'm knackered and can't help hating DH's guts when I'm doing it alone. I think it's taking its toll on our marriage and my mental health.

Going back to work FT, dealing with nights and weekends alone with the DC whilst juggling the work I'd take home (teacher) scares me to death.

In his defence, DH does all he can to help when he gets in, such as taking kids to school/nursery, taking baby so I can sleep for an hour or two if I'm particularly wrecked. He is only getting by on about 5/6 hours sleep himself.

So am I being a selfish princess or do I have the right to tell him things have to change now we have a bigger family?

My DH is not around at pivotal points either - getting up and bedtime. However he works daytime. Evenings are hard hours in my house as we are all exhausted by 5! By all means ask him to decide to take some responsibility. Presently he gets to opt out of the worst bits of childcare. Part of me wonders whether he likes the nights as he gets some peace teatime onwards and he only has a few hours with the kids daily. Once the kids are at school/nursery, he will hardly see them at all and will have ALOT of down time. It's not sustainable for you to work in a stressful job and do all the hardest bits of childcare alone. There's no downtime for you at all. No time without children. Looks very one sided to me.

Perhaps what is needed is a stricter bedtime regime for your children - which would in turn help you to cope better. I worked full time with three boys under 5. My husband was a fireman and his shifts were 3 days on 3 days nights 3 off. We did not have ANY childcare in those days (a long time ago and another thread!). I managed it by feeding boys by 6pm - bath every night and hair wash (another thread!) bed in staggered stages according to age but ALL children well fed, bathed and cosy and warm in bed by 7.15 at the latest. I would then start housework etc etc etc. I fitted in homework etc too. It is just a case of being organised. Letting children make a fuss about bedtime is a rod for your own back. By allowing them to make a fuss you have taught them how to manipulate the situation. Take charge! My two dils were amazed when I babysat for grandsons and had them fed, bathed and in bed fast asleep for 7pm. At first they did not believe me but I would send them pictures of happy sleeping children. Easy when you know how! After all jobs done I could look forward to sometime ON MY OWN when my husband was on night duty - much needed after looking after four males. My dils suggested I write a book about getting children and babies to sleep! This isn't boasting MN's believe me but borne out of having to work full time with three children and just having to do it without any help at all.

It's definitely U to demand a job change but I don't think you are BU to discuss it. My DH works shifts too, with similar hours. I work full time as a teacher. It is exhausting. Not just the endless time alone, but trying to keep everyone quite in the day and managing the workload of teaching in between. You really have my sympathy. I don't know how you do it with three!

I wonder how many of the people calling you selfish have actually had to manage this themselves?

Totally disagree with many on this thread. You absolutely have a right to expect your DH to look for work that better suits the needs of his family, providing it is within the bounds of 'reasonable'. You have done things 'his' way (not that he has been doing anything wrong) for a long time and it isn't working. Talk to him about another way. You are not being precious at all.

Sort out the bedtimes for the elder two it will make the younger one easier to cope with can you get a friend to pop around for a few nights so you can crack on with it all?

Selfish princess from the opening post by the op, not made up by posters!

I don't think you can demand he changes his job unless he's fully on board with it. You can suggest, not demand. Sorry, it must be tough.

I don't understand why people are being so dismissive of the OP when she is saying this is genuinely having an effect on her marriage and mental health.

Op I couldn't put up with that and your 8 year old needs someone too. I think any decent husband, seeing that a situation is potentially making his wife ill and effecting the marriage should be looking to find a solution.
Sometimes it's not all about the hours worked or the money brought home. If one person feels alone, resentment can build and that ultimately can lead to marriage breakdown. Money clearly isn't the issue here.

I don't think you're a selfish princess at all and the posters saying that are being unnecessarily harsh. Whilst I don't think you can just demand it you are definitely within your rights to have a serious discussion about it.

My DH worked all night shifts for 2 years, starting from 10 days before our first DC was born until just after his second birthday and I found it so hard and I only had one DC at that point. Luckily he managed to get a day job at that point which paid pretty much the same as it was quite a low wage anyway even with the night premium. One of his friends has a highly paid night job and has been trying to transfer to days but needs a promotion to keep the same wage so is stuck for the moment.

You've already said you could pick up a drop in his wages by returning to work full time so it's not like you are putting it all on him to work more hours in the day to bring in the extra money. And full time teaching is hard and more than a full time job IME. I think you are being perfectly reasonable

I wonder how many of the people calling you selfish have actually had to manage this themselves?

^Also this.

I think someone coming in to support you to get into a routine would help but tbf I don't know who can do that. Ask the HV pleeeease to send someone. or the GP.

The 6 month old should sleep better. Possibly picking up on all the stress you are under. The 3 year old should be returned until they stay (according to Tiny Tearaways programme only takes about 3 nights). And 8 year old goes to bed and stays whatever you are doing with no ipad.

The exhaustion makes it so hard to plan any action.
You need to toughen up OP. I think the loss of wages would be another worry if DH changed his work.

And miss baths if it is more hassle. Do it some other time of day or once a week as I was brought up with (old gimmer who brought up 3 with often absent dH)

It is a very difficult situation. I know a lot of teachers are struggling to work FT with children so that may not be the answer. The only answer is for DH to get a 9-5 job. It is very, very tough working nights and I know where I am (NHS) people have found it hard with children in the house and when they reach 55+.
He must realise what his shifts are doing to you all. I don't think you can demand that he changes but he needs to see it himself. Even if it involves making changes om the financial front.
We have a similar situation. We have very little time off as a family. One day every 2 months. One of us is always working when the other isn't (mainly due to NHS workers doing more weekends now). We both work weekends and have no grandparents (only one alive who is 89)!
There is no work-life balance for a lot of parents these days. I am overpaying my mortgage and hoping to clear it very soon!

Not selfish at all as you are planning to go back to work full time in a demanding job. However you can't demand it, only discuss it with him. If it is causing you this mych anxiety something needs to change.

I don't think you can demand it, but I really sympathise with both of you. Nights aren't pleasant for anyone.

The only thing I would say, is are you sure you can make up the financial shortfall if he switches to days? Those are some LONG night shifts he's working, add on the extra pay for those hours and it would take a LONG day shift to come anywhere near close to earning the same amount of money.

If you can, or if you can manage on less money, it's certainly worth sitting him down and talking about it. Try and stay practical and let him know how you feel. But ultimately, his shifts are his choice. Could he realistically get a 9-5 job in his sector, for example?

Good luck

Totally unreasonable to demand anything.
Totally reasonable to have an adult discussion with your dh, all cards on the table, to identity the pressure points and how you can work together to improve things.

You also say you'd be willing to return to work full time to make up any short fall in earnings... however a key question for me, would be is this what you've done up to now? Have you taken ML and then returned to full time teaching in between, and found that it works better? I'm assuming not, because you talk about it hypothetically as something you would only do to make up a shortfall in earnings.

This is an important part of the equation. You admit your dh will earn less if he moves to regular 9-5 hours. Yet how do you know that you'd get f/t work? If you're on ML from a p/t job, that's the only job you have an automatic right to return to. It may be that your dh is worrying about finances, knows he can earn good money on his current hours and isn't keen to rock the boat. He's clearly a decent guy who is doing all he can to help and also surviving on little sleep. I don't think it will help to demand he switches to lower paid hours when you have no guarantee of a full time contract.

You do need to thrash all of this out though, and I agree with the suggestion of working hard on the evening routine because It's that which is causing you the biggest stress.

Huge recruitment crisis in teaching. OP will be very unlikely to struggle to find a FT job!

To be fair, OP did use the words 'selfish princess' herself, if people have read the post....

YANBU OP, sounds like a nightmare.

OP you have my sympathy and are no way a spoilt princess, night shifts are tough on any family, all the different sleep patterns for a start. Talk to him and ask if for the short term (until the little ones are sleeping better) could he work days if you can cope financially, if he is any sort of DH he will understand. He sounds knackered as well, at least he is trying his hardest.

I worked full time whilst my (late) DH worked 4-5 night shifts as a taxi driver per week 200 miles away (long story!) so factor in a 6 round trip commute as well. Then he would come home and sleep etc.

It almost broke us and we only had one child, especially during the early days because DD never slept until she was 3. We never spent any time as a family, constant arguing because were so knackered. He was exhausted from working all week, I was exhausted from running around after DD on my own and in a full time job.

He eventually left when DD was 15 and life was so much happier and easier after that.

I have not been in the situation you face but know of people who work night shifts and how it messes up with their life. Is a job without night shift available would be my first question.

Jesus it's putting children to bed, not the battle of the Somme.

If the current situation isn't working for the family, you are NBU to talk about changing it. However, how possible would it really be? Childcare costs will increase significantly with a second little on needing FT care. I work a rolling pattern of days and nights - not quite so punishing as your DH's, but about 30% of my salary comes from the 'antisocial' components of my workload. It's a big hit to take. How frequently do jobs come up in his field? Does he actually love his job, despite the hours (I know I do), and not want to change?

I think the 8yo needs to get homework done, no iPad until then. That should be non-negotiable. Then they can help with stories and bathtime, or alternatively, clearing up dinner things. Get them to pull their weight rather than 'free-ranging'. The baby will get less crap at sleeping in time, will start to feed less at night.

My DH used to work overseas for a few days a week, most weeks, when I was working and caring for our daughter. It was horrible, I'd have loved him to stop and come home. But it wouldn't have made my shifts easier, nor would it have made her terrible sleep any better. But it was good for our family (financially and for DH's career/self-esteem) for him to do it. So we did. And I did like having the bed to myself :)

Trifleorbust- I know, I'm a teacher myself! But there are reasons why there's a recruitment crisis, which
Leads me to wonder whether the OP has really thought through the reality of applying for and securing a full time position.

Francis makes a good suggestion-
If the OP is so sure things will
Work better with her in a f/t job then there's nothing to stop her applying now... she has presumably had at least 7 months ML and she doesn't need to take extended leave. You have to give a fair bit of notice anyway when leaving a teaching job. The cut off for leaving on Dec is oct 31 so realistically the OP is looking at Easter as the earliest point she can start full time.
If she goes for that, the family are in a much stronger position financially to start considering the Dh dropping his income.

I feel he could find work in his industry that does not involve such long night shifts and I'm sure we could take a hit financially, especially if I went back FT too

Firstly sympathies because sleep deprivation is torture.

I don't know many people who work night shifts for fun. I'm guessing your DH does it because he can't get a comparable job without nights and he feels he has got to bring in a certain income. You say you could work full-time to cover the hit to his earnings but, if you want him to feel confident about changing jobs, I think you need to try this out first (maybe as a supply/maternity cover) to demonstrate that this works for your family. Otherwise you are asking him as sole bread-winner to take a huge risk.

And, as he only works night shifts half the time at the moment, can't you get him to do bedtime when he is working days, so that you get a break?

"Talk to him and ask if for the short term (until the little ones are sleeping better) could he work days if you can cope financially"

How many jobs are there where this is even an option, let alone a viable one? I don't know any jobs where you can just switch your shift pattern on a short-term basis, especially not from nights to days!