AIBU To Be Exasperated by Spelling Mistakes?

[DivingWithoutANet]

I can understand that once in a while spellcheck might confuse "you're" and "your", "his" and "he's", "there" and "they're" and retypes what someone wrote.

But some posts are just littered with these and other spelling mistakes with a generous sprinkling of "ur" for good measure.

Is it unreasonable to stop reading someone's post just because the spelling is awful? After all this is not a literary club so anyone can write how they wish.

Surely where someone has difficulty with spelling and grammar, the most likely explanation is a poor education. Which is a shame, not something to reprimand the poster for.

The people I know with poor written communication are those who have had poor parental involvement in their parenting, particularly those who have changed school frequently and their parents/guardians made no attempt to ensure continuity (like a previous poster mentioned about her mum). In my experience dyslexia, combined with intelligence and good schooling, is much less likely to result in someone with poor written communication.

Good spelling and grammar is one of those things that marks you out as privileged - like accent, or being able to ski or play golf, or indeed being able to read at all - it is rarely about intelligence and nearly always about what influences a person has been exposed to.

If I judged people on their spelling and grammar I would be a damn sight poorer in my friendships. If people ask me for help with spelling of course I try, but I don't correct people for the sake of it. How crass.

"LogicallyLost

That was a ludicrous argument because if accurate spelling and grammar come naturally to you, you are going to write properly.

came naturally or comes naturally? smile"

...accurate spelling comes naturally...
...grammar comes naturally...
...accurate spelling and grammar COME naturally...

The example I used is a plural.

batteries Exactly that. I'd like to assume that none of the posters here would actually pull people up on their grammar in real life, or online, but it would seem that it happens. I just don't understand it. It is crass.

By the way, what is Pedants' Corner? I'm imagining something similar to Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park, except with scowls, a lot of muttering and red marker pens.

I think Pendants Corner is a nice place where people debate the finer points of these things.

Also, am pretty sure people have rocked up to pedants corner before and said something like 'accept and except, how do I get it right?' And received helpful advice.

I don't think it's a twat corner. But I don't spend a lot of time there so might be wrong.

Me Thinfs you has to much thyme on ya ands.

The spelling and grammar don't fuss me very much, if an individual word's not intelligible I can almost always figure it out from context. The only posts I find really hard to read are the ones with little to no punctuation or capitals of any kind and the long, long ones that are a huge wall of text with no paragraphs. Put both of those together in one post and it's enough to make your eyes bleed, figuratively speaking. Still doesn't make me think less of the poster, we all communicate differently, it's just super hard to parse.

It doesn't bother me on here, it's far too easy to post stuff without checking it but it does grate in public places. I was in an exhibition last week where the first line on an information board read "The flora of this area is divers."

Your life must be great if this is all you have to grumble about

^^
this

How do you know this is all OP has to grumble about? People with lots to worry about are still allowed the occasional light-hearted moan.

Just a thought - but might not people who have spelling/language problems be helped by seeing well-written messages with correct spelling and punctuation? Perhaps a little subliminal learning might take place, instead of reinforcement?

Histora, Absolutely - and I'm glad of that because my last post missed out a 'not', which would have changed the sense completely!

AuntJane, Did you mean to be so patronising? Paraphrasing the MN mantra there but how did you not cringe whilst typing that?

Do you know that all people who might have spelling/language problems would appreciate this 'helpful' interference? No, you don't and, if you'd bothered to read the thread you'd see that many posters have stated exactly why they don't like it. So don't do it.

Pedants Corner is the place where people like being picked up on mistakes and appreciate asking questions about spelling/grammar. It's very good-natured there and I wouldn't mind posting there myself if I had a question.

Well said LyingWitchinTheWardrobe

AuntJane, having re-read your post, if you were just talking about posting normally with the correct spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. then this is obviously not a problem. No need to ask even.

However, if you were intending some kind of "This is an example of a perfectly written post" then that wouldn't be ok. That is pretty much what is happening here already with the unsolicited corrections to posters who have expressed no wish for the interruption. That's disgraceful.

So with that in mind, how are you intending to draw people's attention to posts that you consider 'perfect' when such posters may be, as you say, having some sort of spelling/language problem? How would such posters even recognise a 'perfectly' written post? I'm genuinely interested to know.

LyingWitchinTheWardrobe - Sorry if I touched a nerve. All I was suggesting is that people can and do learn from example, so perhaps we should all try to set a good one. If people trying to improve their English (and bear in mind that many here do not have English as a first language) see mostly poorly-spelled and punctuated posts, they may believe that is correct.

A lot of people seem to think "It's a chat forum, it doesn't matter" but you're still expressing yourself in public. Also, nowhere in my post did I say "perfect"; what I said it that people learn from example, so why not set the best example you can?

AuntJane - have you read the thread?

AuntJane... Well you didn't touch a nerve in that I'm quite happy with my own standards of spelling, language and grammar but what I don't like is the omnipresent correcting of these things to a poster who hasn't asked for this correction and feels 'got at' by it. It's not on.

Even on this thread, the gaggle of posters happily faux-critiquing each other's posts for posts on end. It just derails the thread and there's no need for it. On other threads it's a constant 'as' instead of 'has' with some posters so lacking that they can't use context and understand the post. They feel that they have the right to correct this and do so in a mocking manner.

If people haven't asked you to critique their use of English then shut up. It really is that simple. If their posts offend your eyes very much then move along, backspace out.

You're still harping on about non-English speakers or those with English as a second or third language. So what is your point? There are some well-written posts some less well-written posts. There's no need to draw attention to either. Posters on this thread - and any other of this ilk - have told you that they don't like it, don't want to be corrected here. Assuming that you can read and comprehend their wishes then there shouldn't be an issue.

So, take your own advice, set the best example you can and don't make other people miserable to bolster your own self-esteem. I think that covers it.

LyingWitch - Where have I said anything about correcting other people's posts/grammar/English? All I have said is that some people may learn from others' posts, whether they are well- or poorly- written. If posters can write properly, why not do so?

I don't think anyone suggested berating people for their spelling, hell, the original post was literally "Is it unreasonable to stop reading someone's post just because the spelling is awful?".

But you feel free to decide that this thread is populated by the language police and make it your mission to fight a threat that doesn't exist (at least not here).

I said that in my second post, AuntJane. If that's all that you're saying, ie. if posters can write properly then they should do so - we're in agreement. However, if they lapse or make a mistake in their posts then it's not for anybody to correct them.

Some posters on this board actively correct (often incorrectly) other posters' misspelt words. It's these posters that I have a problem with, not posters that just post properly and don't seek to pull others up for their posts.

Sorry if that wasn't clear; I hope it is now.

Completely agree op, people with poor spelling and grammar are much less deserving of help and advice. Best get my dyslexic stamp covered up, or maybe crawl back under my rock.

MrsFrisbyMouse

Current government guidance on SpAG - flies in the face of what linguistic academics and researchers are trying to to - namely to move away from the notion of fixed rules.

Speaking as a "linguistic academic" - I have a PhD in theoretical syntax - I have to take issue with this. Linguists are not against "the notion of fixed rules", they just happen to study the subconscious rules that govern our languages and language abilities instead of the conscious rules we have to learn, like those of spelling and grammar.

I think people are being unfair on the OP. S/he was just saying that bad spelling annoys him/her, not that we should all have carte blanche to belittle people who make mistakes.

I would tend to agree with this position. I think the people who are defending bad spelling and/or grammar are part of the larger anti-intellectual trend in modern public discourse, and yes, are even supporting the "dumbing down" of society.

Yes, language does evolve, but there is also an argument that maintaining standards of written language enables mutual intelligibility across dialects and eras. If everyone wrote phonetically for their own speech, then people from Glasgow would no longer share a written language with those from Jamaica or Antigonish, Nova Scotia.

I also don't buy the argument that not everyone has had the benefit of a good education. I understand that not everyone leaves school at the same age, with the same qualifications, etc. but everyone posting on Mumsnet has access to the internet and therefore to the information necessary to educate themselves and improve their spelling and grammar. Dyslexia and other special needs form a separate case, but I would note that the vast majority of self-identified dyslexics on this thread have perfectly adequate (or even very good!) spelling.

I'm not defending the right to criticize people posting who are looking for help and advice, but that's not what the OP was suggesting. I also think that everyone is bound to make a typo or an autocorrect mistake, or even a genuine error, every once in a while.

On the other hand, if I were making a consistent spelling or grammar mistake, I hope someone would (gently and kindly) point it out to me, so I could stop making a fool of myself, much like if I had my skirt tucked up or spinach in my teeth.

Sorry for the huge rant, I just have a lot of feelings about this!

Well perhaps the 'correctors' will take a note of your username, Shampoo and helpfully correct you then, since you would welcome this.

It really isn't such a difficult thing to understand that a) some people do not like being corrected for spelling, grammar and punctuation and b) it's not your (general) job to do it on a chatboard because it's offensive.

There really are some super-pompous zealots on this thread who think their right to correct others literacy shortcomings trumps anything else.

"ShampooForMyRealFriends

MrsFrisbyMouse

Current government guidance on SpAG - flies in the face of what linguistic academics and researchers are trying to to - namely to move away from the notion of fixed rules.

Speaking as a "linguistic academic" - I have a PhD in theoretical syntax - I have to take issue with this. Linguists are not against "the notion of fixed rules", they just happen to study the subconscious rules that govern our languages and language abilities instead of the conscious rules we have to learn, like those of spelling and grammar.

I think people are being unfair on the OP. S/he was just saying that bad spelling annoys him/her, not that we should all have carte blanche to belittle people who make mistakes.

I would tend to agree with this position. I think the people who are defending bad spelling and/or grammar are part of the larger anti-intellectual trend in modern public discourse, and yes, are even supporting the "dumbing down" of society.

Yes, language does evolve, but there is also an argument that maintaining standards of written language enables mutual intelligibility across dialects and eras. If everyone wrote phonetically for their own speech, then people from Glasgow would no longer share a written language with those from Jamaica or Antigonish, Nova Scotia.

I also don't buy the argument that not everyone has had the benefit of a good education. I understand that not everyone leaves school at the same age, with the same qualifications, etc. but everyone posting on Mumsnet has access to the internet and therefore to the information necessary to educate themselves and improve their spelling and grammar. Dyslexia and other special needs form a separate case, but I would note that the vast majority of self-identified dyslexics on this thread have perfectly adequate (or even very good!) spelling.

I'm not defending the right to criticize people posting who are looking for help and advice, but that's not what the OP was suggesting. I also think that everyone is bound to make a typo or an autocorrect mistake, or even a genuine error, every once in a while.

On the other hand, if I were making a consistent spelling or grammar mistake, I hope someone would (gently and kindly) point it out to me, so I could stop making a fool of myself, much like if I had my skirt tucked up or spinach in my teeth.

Sorry for the huge rant, I just have a lot of feelings about this! blush"

Your post is fine. It's good to know you have serious points to make about using language.

"Sorry for the huge rant, I just have a lot of feelings about this!"
Probably not so many feelings about this as those of us with dyslexia or those of us with struggling dyslexic children!