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Original poster

Should I be honest with friend about her childcare issues

110 replies

Waiting4cakes · 25/10/2016 21:20

So my friend has asked me for advice but I'm not sure I should be honest with her.
Friend has 3 DCs (9,6 and 5) and she and her husband work full time so for the past 3 years or so they have had a nanny look after the DCs during the week.
However they have never had a nanny for more than 6 months as they keep leaving. The most recent has handed her notice in after 2 months.

Usually when she tells me they have left I just say something vague and change the subject but she has asked me over text today why I think they are leaving.

But I believe the problem is my friend.
For example she tells the nannies not to give the DCs sweets but then if the DCs come home and tell her the nanny wouldn't buy them sweets she will tell the nanny off for not spoiling the DCs. If the nanny does buy the DCs sweets then she tells them off for not following her instruction.

She will ask then to work for an extra half hour or so and then forget to pay them for a few weeks.

She asks the nannies to do too much with the DCs so for example in the 3 hours between getting home from school to friend coming home from work she expects the DCs to have done.
All their homework, music practice for at least half an hour, have eaten something, have had at least an hour of exercise and outdoors time, to have made the DCs clean their room and the living room and kitchen, to have done a creative activity like painting or drawing and that all their school stuff is ready for the next day.

She has also refused to allow time off for illness or hospital appointment and made them take unpaid leave.

And that's just the stuff I know about.
So should I be honest with her and tell her I think it's her fault or should I just lie.

OP posts:
Glastokitty · 26/10/2016 01:06

I'd tell her, but only because I wouldn't care about remaining friends with her, she sounds like a right cow.

DoNotBlameMeIVotedRemain · 26/10/2016 01:22

Can't you just say 'you do expect a lot of them after school. Most nannies would not be expected to do all those activities each day.'.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 26/10/2016 01:52

She sounds rather thick, or at least totally un-self-aware!

No, don't tell her. Suggest she goes back to the agency and ask them if her ex-nannies have said anything. Failing that, ask her to write down all her criteria, exactly as she says them, so that you can point out the blinding inconsistencies at least!
I wouldn't want to work for her, that's for sure. :(

NeedsAsockamnesty · 26/10/2016 02:09

Is she employing actual nannies or just people she calls nannies.

In my neck of the woods you raise your eyebrow at a nanny in the wrong way and every single other one within a 200 mile radius knows about it!

citychick · 26/10/2016 02:21

hi op
if you do speak with her do it face to face over a coffee.
ask her what the agency say first and foremost.
then say perhaps, you are willing to offer your thoughts, but make it clear that you may disagree strongly and don't want to lose your friendship over it.
lay down your boundaries. then ask her about her expectations of the nanny. most of which are completely unrealistic.
get her to write it out and really go through it

she is looking for your imput but tread carefully without confrontation.

good luck!

Orrery · 26/10/2016 03:21

Really? She really has to ask why they're leaving? Maybe if she took care of her own kids for a day and saw how hard childcare professionals have to work she might understand. I would say it sounds like she may have to watch out for claims of unfair working conditions.

Thanks to consumer rights programs people seem to think they hold all the cards when it comes to paying for goods and services. It doesn't seem to occur to them that reputation goes both ways and soon she may find there are no nannies left in the area willing to work for her.

BoomBoomsCousin · 26/10/2016 03:32

May be frame it in a more general way -so say something like " I understand most nannies leave employers who are inconsistent or unrealistic in their expectations or skimp on compensation? What's it like for a nanny working for you?

Kpo58 · 26/10/2016 04:08

Explain to her that Mary Poppins doesn't actually exist.

graphista · 26/10/2016 05:17

"The nanny mafia aka grape vine is a very powerful thing"

So true! I was a nanny for 9 years, she's not only acting badly she's acting illegally nannies as ANY employee is, are entitled to time off sick, for appointments etc. I too wouldn't be surprised if she's paying as little as she can get away with, does she even have a proper contract with them? Appallingly unsettling for the children too.

In addition me and my friends are honest with each other, that's what good friends do, ever since 'yes those jeans DO make your bum look big' to 'yes your child is running rings around you sort it out'. We say nice things too Smile

I would NOT do by text, it's notorious for misunderstandings. Then say something like

' I love you and I love your kids and that's why I need to say the following.

You and nanny should be a team working together for the benefit of the children.

You need to treat your nannies well because they are caring for the people you love most. Also because they are people too.

You need to adjust your expectations to something realistic for the time and energy available to those people at that time, children need down time too. You need to be clear and consistent on expectations regarding eg if sweets are allowed it's unfair on the children and the nanny to flip flop on things you've said are non negotiable. It will also earn you respect as an employer if you stick to what you said and prevents the children being able to play nanny and mum against each other.

And you need to act legally and professionally with regard to time off and payments etc - that will earn you respect from nanny and means she will be more inclined to go above and beyond.'

I do wonder if someone should write a guide to being a nanny employer.

mimishimmi · 26/10/2016 05:19

Don't tell her. What's the point? She's not going to change if she hasn't had the insight to see where she's going wrong. She just wants reassurance it's them, not her. Just don't let her rope you into doing it GrinGrin

CurtainsforRonnie · 26/10/2016 05:31

Text her a link to this thread. She sounds horrendous.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 26/10/2016 05:47

No seriously, do not ever link to threads you have started about people you know. Such a bad idea!

Minesril · 26/10/2016 06:11

She doesnt pay them??? I'd tell her exactly why they're leaving - because she's an evil bitch! And then I'd tell her that i have no wish to be friends with an evil bitch!

hesterton · 26/10/2016 06:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tanith · 26/10/2016 06:38

I would tell her face to face and, if it ruins the friendship, I'd be relieved not to be friends with someone who can treat an employee like this.

But then I run a playgroup where I have seen nannies and au pairs in tears over similar treatment. They're utterly worn out after trying to meet their boss's expectations - and they're surrounded by other nannies and childminders encouraging them to leave at the earliest opportunity.

I have nothing but contempt for people like your friend.

Giselaw · 26/10/2016 06:59

What have the nannies said? I can't believe none have said why it's not working it out or not tried to talk to her about these issues ever.

Giselaw · 26/10/2016 07:05

Actually, I'd reply in text honestly...

Hard to know as an outsider. I'm sure your nannies must have raised some issues before leaving... Is there not a common theme in what they're objecting to?

if she replies no, then shrug your shoulders and change the subject as she's not actually interested in honest feedback.

NavyandWhite · 26/10/2016 07:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aeginadad · 26/10/2016 07:15

Your friend is not very self-aware. She'll survive as will the nannies. There is not much you can tell your friend about how she treats paid "help". Its a bit sad really - she hasnt learnt any lessons because she mustn't be interacting with anyone other than her friends and paid help.

ANewStartOverseas · 26/10/2016 07:35

If you tell her how it is, you will lose your friend TBH. It's all well and good to say honesty is the best policy but in the real world, people get upset and put all the blame on you.

I think you need to say something but not in 'you are a nightmare' type of way.

I would encourage her to draw a contract in writing with all these things. So she doesn't want to dcs to have sweets, time off given for hosp appointments (I would have thought it is a legal requirement anyway??) etc... Maybe tell her that it might even be better to have it review by a lawyer (it won't cost her that much compare to the nightmare and cost of finding someone every 6 months) and let the lawyer point out the inconsistency (such as how much to to do in 3 hours).
Then remind her that the nanny will have to stick to it. So no sweets on the counteract means no sweets and she can't back out iyswim.

HalloToJasonIsaacs · 26/10/2016 07:41

I think there is a nice way to say "well, since you ask, I do think you're a bit on the tough side as an employer, and other people who hire nannies are likely to be a bit more generous about things like sick leave and making sure they pay for extra time immediately. And you do seem to be asking an awful lot of them after school. Nannies have a lot of choice and as I understand it, a lot of employers really go out of their way to be sympathetic to them and not criticise unless it's absolutely vital, so that's what you're competing with."

3luckystars · 26/10/2016 07:43

This is one of those situations where its ok to lie. Just nod and say "I don't know why they are all leaving, they must be just unsuitable" and finish your tea.

There is a certain type of person that treats staff like that, and she wont change. She would probably turn on you if you criticise her. Don't do it!!

HalloToJasonIsaacs · 26/10/2016 07:45

The friend and the nannies will survive aeginadad, but it can't be good for the children.

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 26/10/2016 08:10

She sounds like a bloody nightmare and not a nice person in general.

She's your mate and you like her so presumably got some redeeming features?

I'd have to be honest and tell her that she was hard to work for and didn't treat the girls with respect.

Original poster
Waiting4cakes · 26/10/2016 09:21

I don't know if the nannies have told her. If they have she hasn't told me. I also don't know how much she has payed.

She has had at least 7 or 8 nannies. She got the first few from agencies I'm not sure about the most recent few as she hasn't mentioned it.

I have messaged her asking why she thinks they are leaving, she replied saying that she thinks that the nannies are usually young and aren't used to working and just want an easy ride. That they try to take advantage of her because she doesn't look like someone who could afford to employ a nanny.

OP posts: