To think PE is a waste of time

[ICantfindagoodusername]

I'm totally prepared to be flamed, but please take the time to read the thread rather than just saying YABU because of the title.
I think PE is a waste of time because:
•Why is it the school's job to make sure our kids get enough exercise? An example of the government parenting our kids for us.
•Why does it always have to be team sports? Schools could do other more interesting PE choices, such as zumba, aerobics, and other things that don't involve running around outside in the cold and rain.
•What good does it do for your education? If a kid is overweight, a couple of hours of standing on a football pitch won't change anything. The time could be better spent covering more of the curriculum. Kids run around at lunchtime anyways.
•PE is supposed to make kids foster a life long love of sports. But in reality, lots of kids LOATHE it, and as soon as they are 16, quit PE, never to do it again.

my life is set up to do exactly as I please, not sure why everyone else doesn't do that but up to you I guess

There will be things you rely on done by people who don't particularly enjoy doing what they do. People empty your bins, They serve you in shops, they clean your streets, they may wipe your arse when you are old.. I don't think people 'enjoy' doing that.
As far as doing what you enjoy - I agree. Make your life as comfortable for yourself as possible, however, not everyone can afford to be in that position and children have to learn that they will be asked to do things they don't like in many aspects of their life so that is why 'everyone else doesn't do that'
You can't be employed and only do the bits of a job you enjoy.

A lot of people who love reading may have been quite miserable when being taught to read. A student who adores hard maths in the sixth form may have hated trigonometry in year 9 (I've got one of those). A child might loathe cross country running but then be pleased that they're fit enough to do fell running or orienteering.

If kids just did what they liked at school you'd end up with a lot more bored, ignorant hopeless adults.

I hated PE at secondary and used to skive to avoid it.

I was actually quite good at certain sports and average at others. I do loads of exercise now and even compete (although not team sports). It's brought me a lot of pleasure and being in sports clubs at uni and as an adult has helped me make loads of friends.

I could easily have been put off completely at school though. Stinky changing rooms, bullying, being forced to do rugby and get all bruised and muddy, difficulty of dealing with periods whilst wearing short skirts etc - what was the point? There should be much more choice and it would be easier if they did it last thing in the day so you could just go home after.

You cant have a whole school doing PE last thing though, can you?

The government would sell off even more playing fields and we would be left with even less green spaces.
For some children PE is the highlight of the week, it may be the only time they get to do something they enjoy and are good at.
Throughout school from a very young age I hated music and thought it was pointless, but I had to learn to sit in the class, listen and behave. I was also humiliated by the music teacher and to this day i never sing. I would however encourage my children at music as they may have a totally different experience to me.

My PE lessons used to be last lesson of the day. We still had to get changed back into our school uniforms before leaving and the teachers used to do the lesson right up to the bell so you had to rush getting dressed or you would miss the bus. Loads of people complained but the teachers kept saying the same shit "the bell is for me not you". The 4 PE teachers at might school still work there (I left in 2002) so unless there's been a personality change they're still being the evil, sadistic birches who glorify in humiliating the less able and praising only the best.

If kids just did what they liked at school you'd end up with a lot more bored, ignorant hopeless adults.

^ That

PE would be a waste of time for some kids if it was always taught in the way you seem to think it is. Thankfully there are teachers out there who are better than that.

•Why is it the school's job to make sure our kids get enough exercise?

Because some parents fail their children.

•Why does it always have to be team sports?

It doesn't, and it shouldn't be.

•What good does it do for your education?

You might find the 'Better Movers and Thinkers' philosophy interesting.

www.educationscotland.gov.uk/resources/b/bmt/introduction.asp

•PE is supposed to make kids foster a life long love of sports.

PE is supposed to do a lot more than that.

I hated pe with a passion, in fact when I was older I would skip school completely on pe days to avoid the trauma of it.

I was not sporty at all, ridiculously uncoordinated, shit at team sports because everyone hated me so I'd just be stood there praying the ball wouldn't come anywhere near me Andrew the bitch pe teacher sensed that I hated her lesson so would make my life's hell.

Don't even get me started on sports day.

If they offered something different to boring old hockey, netball and football I may have shown more interest.

Martial arts can have huge benefits for kids - I'd have been all over that!

"If kids just did what they liked at school you'd end up with a lot more bored, ignorant hopeless adults."

My children gave done whatever they pleased today. They have had more screen time than usual. Ds did play his guitar and dd went swimming. Dd also made a Halloween mask. Ds has watched me do a water test with a sample of water from the fish tank. Tried to explain to him about the nitrogen cycle and how too much ammonia or nitrates might kill any potential fish.

I don't think I would be cut out for an unschooling approach to home education. If Ds had his way he would never pick up a pen again. He would also be limited by what I am interested in.

A curriculum introduces children to ideas in a systematic fashion. For example Ds would never choose to study an MFL.

Studying a foreign language gives children an understanding that other cultures exist. Some children have UKIP supporters for parents and studying an MFL might help counteract a racist upbringing. Other complusory subjects like RE are designed to foster tolerance.

Similarly complusory PE helps counteract a couch potato upbringing.

Only if they have a couch potato upbringing Really. Mine didn't. Two children. Same nature. Same nurture. Two different personalities. Two different aptitudes. One sporty. One not sporty. One confident. One diffident. One a liberal arts linguist. One more science based. One at Oxford. One hoping to go. Impact of PE/games on achievement and success. Nah.

Unfortunately some children have few opportunities and do have a couch potato upbringing. By being given the opportunity to do sport at school, they may discover that not only they are good but more importantly they also enjoy it.

And they may discover it is a living nightmare that sucks joy from their soul. Lucky children have parents who empathise and make sure there are other things they are good at. Unlucky children suffer and have no other opportunities to shine.

So people if left to their own devices become bored and ignorant ? Well I suppose it's better than becoming a Tory I suppose.
But seriously you can't believe that people need direction ? Actually if left to get on with it I think there would be less mental health issues and more happy people.

At the risk of becoming John Lennon, we're asking the wrong questions here

"So people if left to their own devices become bored and ignorant ?"

Depends on the individual. Sometimes unschooling works well as a form of home education, but some individuals do learn sweet fa. Or they have major deficiencies in their knowledge.

School exposes children to ideas that are different to what their parents think. For example a fundermentalist Christian might learn about the theory of evolution, the existence of dinosaurs and contraception in science. The child of UKIP supporters might learn that Muslims are not all terrorists from making friends in the playground. They would have repugnant views challenged in complusory PHSCE lessons. Subjects like geography or history help a child understanding of the world.

Complusory PE also serves a meaningful purpose of children experiencing physical activity and learning a range of sports. It's also good for health. My private secondary school had 1 hour of sport a day. There was only one obese child in my year group. My son's class has loads of overweight children.

Maybe we need a more targeted approach to PE and get really unfit children to do more exercise after school. It's nuts that after school resources is purely focussed on the altheletic. The law would need to be changed to allow a school to force physically less able children to do extra exercise after school. I feel that aspects of physical developnent like balance, flexibility, upper body strength are often neglected in schools. Early intervention could prevent painful conditions like flat feet.

The emphasis needs to be on health and confidence rather than competition or team sports.

All PE taught me was that I was shit at most sports, would be picked last in every team and ridiculed by the other kids and teachers for it. Took several years after leaving to find I actually liked various forms of excercise and even some non-team sports. But of course the team Sport zealots always seem to get their way.

It crushes me to read so many posters saying they hated PE because they weren't good at it.

What do we tell our children every day? The only way to be good at something is to practice. Do it again. And again. And again. Then you will be better at it.

Insert anything into this: reading, maths, singing, science, writing, computer games, dancing, putting on make up, cooking, budgeting, geography, history, driving, swimming. And' PE.'

You might not be great, but you will almost certainly be better.

All PE taught me was that I was shit at most sports, would be picked last in every team and ridiculed by the other kids and teachers for it.

Same experience here

Sprink nobody gets away with laughing at a kid who isn't good at maths or reading the teacher intervenes. Rightly so.

I was constantly punished by the "cool" kids and my PE teacher. Your told your not trying hard enough - I was never encouraged to do better, I felt like a disappointment.

I have EDS which was undiagnosed at school but when I was unable to run or use a tennis racket and I said it hurt I was laughed at by my teacher, told to stop making excuses. It took twisting my ankles (told I was putting it on) nearly breaking my wrist on a horse and ripping the ligaments in my arm before this one teacher finally let me sit out if I said it hurt. I was made to feel like a failure constantly and when I was good at something, swimming the teacher then stopped me from doing that because it was a privallage and if I was complaining about tennis then I didn't get to do swimming.

This of course was a long time ago as I'm nearly 40, but I remember it quite vividly. I was always utterly useless at learning a new language, I was never made to feel stupid or a failure by my teacher I was encouraged and when people laughed at me they were told off and it was stopped.

Have any PE teachers been on to explain/defend the way PE is taught in schools? I haven't seen any as yet, which is pretty unusual as there's plenty of teachers on mumsnet and they are usually pretty robust in putting their case.

I'd be interested to hear what they've got to say or from other secondary school teachers and what they think of PE provision. Do they think it is valuable and well delivered or does it just eat into curriculum time?

I dunno... I was ok at reading & math so I didn't get laughed at for those.
But I was openly ridiculed frequently by the other kids for absolutely everything else. Singing was esp. blatent pointing & laughing, but it was all open ridicule. An 11yo boy rolled round on the floor having a toddler-style tantrum and real tears (in front of everyone) when he found out he had to sit next to me. Teachers did feck all (primary).

Either you slit your wrists or just keep trying.

"So people if left to their own devices become bored and ignorant ?"

That's not what I said ... it's definitely good to leave kids to do what they want some of the time, to let them get 'bored' so that they then have to use their imaginations or decide for themselves what they do. And certainly not spoonfeed at school. But without the framework of education (I can't imagineeven 'unschooling' works without quite a lot of adult support, provision of resources?) ... it limits what they can do that isn't passive.

PE doesn't have to be dire. There are schools which manage to make it quite fun for those who aren't 'naturals', encourage to do your best - while at the same time encouraging those who are into competitive sport.

I quite like IcedVanillaLatte's concept (though not totally taking some of those things out of schools). Hard to see it happening, but a way to allow all kids to access a range of activities like that would be good. A mix of physical activity, public service, other skills.... supercharged DofE for all?

I hated PE but I still think we need it. It helps kids to learn about their bodies and looking after them. DD at secondary is learning this kind of stuff in PE alongside the physical stuff.

My kids are luckier than I was as the youngest have already done things like table tennis, rounders, basketball, rope climbing as well as general stuff like football netball and cross country.

DD has Aspergers and is clumsy as hell, can't catch and struggles with balance but is being supported to try trampolining, dance and gymnastics amongst other things.

A good varied curriculum and support for those who struggle is what is needed, as it is in every subject.

Grinchy I agree with your post. Its excellent.

Being good at sport is party nature and partly nuture. If you sit on your backside all day being a couch potato then you will not develop sporting ablity.My son will never be good at sport because of dyspraxia, but he is capable of improvement. He has a better range of activites than I never had at school.

Balance is complex and involves core muscles and the brain. Children can be trained to improve their balance. My son has a load of exercises from the phyiso to improve his core strength and his balance. Children (and parents) need to see a purpose in what they are being asked to do. I would like targetted activities to improve particular muscle groups.

Errol, I agree that it would probably never happen! Too much of a rejig to ever really be taken on board, I suppose.

In the system I have in my head, schools are still the venues for quite a few of the activities - they have the gym space, school fields, music/art rooms - but places on these courses would not be limited to those children already at those schools, and could be taken for credit by any child. So, from now (half term) until Christmas, say your enrichment activity day is a Tuesday. Morning session and afternoon session. Your school is offering a percussion class or netball in the morning, gymnastics or life painting in the afternoon. The school shown the road is doing D of E training or photography in the morning, tennis or dance in the afternoon. The local private school is offering rugby in the morning, and keyboard playing in the afternoon. You could also join the swimming group at the local leisure centre for one of these sessions for half a term, or have piano or skiing lessons paid for by your parents or by special grant (with evidence provided for the school by whoever is providing the sessions).

The kid without much money chooses percussion class at her own school in the morning, and a swimming session at the leisure centre in the afternoon. A bus takes children to the leisure centre. She uses her vouchers for those activities. The school and the leisure centre both show evidence she is attending those sessions. Next half-term she chooses rugby at the private school, and life painting in the afternoon.

The kid with rich parents chooses photography in the morning, but for the afternoon her parents can afford for her to have 1-1 private trombone lessons. She uses the voucher and her parents make up the difference.

There would need to be transport to other schools and leisure centres, probably by bus from your "home" school.

It could be expensive for the state, and would also have the problem that kids with better off parents would be able to have them pay fees on top of the basic amount allowed for and paid for by the school, but IMO the benefits would be immense.

IcedVanillaLatte

You would have to break once and for all the two mantras: that leisure activities which involve great physical activity are somehow better than those that don't and that team leisure activities are somehow better than non-competitive individual activities. Goodness knows how.