To think PE is a waste of time

[ICantfindagoodusername]

I'm totally prepared to be flamed, but please take the time to read the thread rather than just saying YABU because of the title.
I think PE is a waste of time because:
•Why is it the school's job to make sure our kids get enough exercise? An example of the government parenting our kids for us.
•Why does it always have to be team sports? Schools could do other more interesting PE choices, such as zumba, aerobics, and other things that don't involve running around outside in the cold and rain.
•What good does it do for your education? If a kid is overweight, a couple of hours of standing on a football pitch won't change anything. The time could be better spent covering more of the curriculum. Kids run around at lunchtime anyways.
•PE is supposed to make kids foster a life long love of sports. But in reality, lots of kids LOATHE it, and as soon as they are 16, quit PE, never to do it again.

Better put than I could have put it HmmmmBop. I am so sorry for those whose children have profound difficulties. DD and I don't but nevertheless have faced difficulties with PE just having low level issues: riding a bike, dancing, playing the flute, writing quickly and legibly. DD has a lap top for exams now.

If something affects a child's inner psyche in a detrimental way I don't understand why it should be compulsory (music, drama, art aren't) or at the very less why provision of that subject isn't reviewed, why the focus isn't more on healthy living and fitness and why there aren't more alternatives such as: aerobic exercise, yoga, Pilates and individual body conditioning rather than ball games which rely heavily on hand eye co-ordination.

That was an awful post ReallyTired. But it does sound as though your son has some very significant challenges. It must be very hard to deal with that and I hope you are getting support in real life. I imagine it is very hard to accept the experience of others or see it through their eyes when your own child faces bigger hurdles and difficulties than you perceive others have to deal with.

However, children differ in their personal responses as do the other variables: type of school, different cohorts in the same school, ethos of the school, ethos and capability of the PE department, choices available. Add in variables relating to the ability and circumstances of individual children and it's a melting pot. Imagine a sensitive child, mildly dyspraxic, struggling a bit with the transfer to secondary, trying hard, as yet undiagnosed with mild ADHD or mild aspergers and there is much greater complexity especially with the mix of teenage hormones and on-set of the menarch. No problem huge in itself but a noisy, undifferentiated, unenlightened PE department is often the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Now with another hat on try to imagine how hard it is to get to the bottom of any one of those mild underlying conditions when self harm and depression set in. Not least if the child is bright, quiet and no trouble. Do you think the senco is interested? The GP is interested? CAMHS is interested? What exactly do you think parents do to mend it if they don't have the thousands of pounds it takes to do it privately. If dropping or skiving PE, the biggest causer of misery for their child dampens the misery do still label the child a brat?

You have no idea what other families may be dealing with and I would venture to suggest you reflect a little that others may have problems to deal with too, often alone a with very little formal support from schools or the NHS. Whilst I am deeply sorry about the challenges you and your son have faced and are facing please stop projecting your personal experiences on this thread and undermining the experiences of others.

Reallytired What you seem to fail to recognise is that for me a day in isolation would have been heaven compared to being in a group of teenagers yelling and running around and trying to put a stupid ball I could not have cared less about into some sort of a net.. I have two boys on the spectrum now and recognize I have a few traits myself so looking back now can see why PE was torture to me. Eventually the lesson so traumatised me I was signed off by a doctor at 15 after years of misery. For me it was a worthless pointless lesson.

Deblet I agree with you about isolation being preferable to PE. I used to deliberately forget my kit and was more than willing to accept detention for it. I didn't ruin lessons for others though. In fact the teachers for so busy focusing on the chosen few that the rest of us just sat on the sidelines for much of the lesson.

My DD has ASD and both DH and myself have a fair few traits that explain our miserable years at school.

Physical activity is so good for mental health and self esteem. What a shame schools make it a negative and miserable experience.

deblet, even if you didn't care about missing lessons, your parents would. They would put pressure on you to stop faking being ill or they would get a proper doctor's note. If parents don't like their child being put in internal isolation then they would need to find another school or home educate. This is easier said than done and most parents would tell the child to accept their punishment. Especially if all the other state secondaries have similar discipline policies and the only school with places is the school in special measures.

A day in internal isolation is a day of missed learning. In many ways a teenager needs a day internal isolation like a hole in the head. Internal isolation does act as a deterrent. Most teens utterly hate the social isolation and some realise that they better follow school rules if they want an education.

It took years for my son to get a diagnosis of dyspraxia. Child development centres would rather give a child no diagnosis than a wrong diagnosis. Other conditions like glue ear can make a dyspraxia diagnosis harder.

My son was 14 when he was given a formal diagnosis. Its been a long road. I don't think a formal diagnosis of dyspraxia has changed the way the school treats Ds. The reality is that schools are full of hardworking and caring teachers. It is not like 40 years ago.

Unfortunately teachers have to put with parents and children who are like little emperors. Children have lots of "rights" and few responsiblites. When children are badly behaved there is no expectation that either they or their parents should take responsibility for their behaviour. The poor teacher gets the blame.

For me q day of internal isolation would have been more preferred to many typical days. I could study in peace without the distraction and irritation of my then peer group.

The trouble is the kids who need a day in isolation like a hole in the heads are the ones who give a crap about a days learning, bigger picture they will be the ones studying hard already and your achievers, are they the ones you want to add more pressure to ? In the name of PE being missed. What a load of shite. It's the same as the being late being punished etc, the only ones that care are the ones that are already well behaved model pupils who slip up occasionally. The ones that flout school rules will continue to do so no matter what therefore the "fairness" of punishment is bullshit, this was provern in the 60's so why it's still taking place now I don't know

In principle I take PE every bit as seriously as maths and English. PE should be about physical literacy, of fitness, strength and motion, of trying and testing different physical activities, running, swimming, climbing, dance, strength, yoga etc.
However it is not the case since it is trying to emulate the old-fashioned PE of public schools in the main with its over-emphasis on team games and on those who are athletically gifted.
I want my boys to fully participate and currently at primary school they do. I'm worried that at secondary school it will be poorly taught and badly managed such that even decent PE teachers are struggling against an outdated curriculum which doesn't enable suitable streaming and targeting of PE to those who need it most.
It was not a coincidence that the SEN kids participation in PE was the 'sitting in school uniform on the side' workout.

I also know of people who in principle would have been more enthusiastic about team games but have been put off rugby simply because they did not feel safe when there are children twice their size on the pitch.

So if secondary school PE makes my boys feel unsafe, marginalized and does not appear to teach them anything useful in terms of fitness I do not have any compunction in withdrawing them from rugby or any other activity which doesn't appear to be properly risk assessed.

If Sports day is not 'a day of sport' but yet more pointless 'watch the athletic kids while laugh at the unco-ordinated ones' while you bake in the sun with no shade I'll have no shame in taking them out and doing something physical and fun with them instead.
It goes against my principles but I have to put mu DCs happiness, health and attitude to fitness in general first.

School PE is nothing like 40 years old. It is well taught in most schools. If your child had strong medical reasons many schools will make reasonable adjustments. For example my son has a friend with severe autism who cannot cope with the change of routine of sports day so is excused. He had plenty of medical evidence and it's not a case of an ikkle precious snowflake who doesn't want to come last. Its a real pity as the child in question is quite atheletic and might win.

Ds has done loads of different sports at school as well as te traditional sports. He has done trampolining, table tennis, tennis, dance, been in a gym to name a few he had done.

Secondary state school PE teachers all have degrees and teaching qualifications. They are not like something out of the 1950s. They even have lesson plans and differentiate.

The trouble with providing different activities during PE is that each activity would need a different teacher supervising. That would probably be prohibitively expensive. That's why schools do the module approach and do 2/3 weeks of one type of sport and then change over. It's much easier and cheaper to have every kid doing the same thing. It's probably also why cross-country is popular - no equipment needed! And let's face it, running/jogging is just about the number 1 sport adults do. I don't think it should be ditched. Maybe a more sensible approach could be taken - each kid has a record of their time and seeks to improve individually, rather than treating it as a race that's always won by the same 3 kids.

I agree with ReallyTired that it should not be acceptable to bunk off PE, and parents should not condone writing fake excuses. If there's a medical issue that's different, but the teachers must get so fed up of the fakers that it becomes much harder to deal sensitively with the people who have a real, undiagnosed, issue.

How do you know who is faking and who has a real issue? I was accused of faking when I struggled with running. I'm asthmatic. Wasn't diagnosed until I left school.

Come from a family where their idea of exercise is looking for the remote. I regret not trying harder at PE as I am actually quite good at running, hillwalking and jumping. I look at the girls I know that stuck with netball etc and they are if you ask me better team players and we'll as the obvious advantage of being very fit.

I didn't discover just how fit and sporty I actually am until I got to university and it wasn't a chore, it was a choice. Like many many things, maths and science included it depends on how it's presented as to whether it's enjoyable or not

Ds's primary school teach PE really well. They've been undertaking a continuous study/ review and have concluded that it has improved focus and behaviour in the more traditionally academic lessons. They've just decided to increase the number of weekly PE lessons to 2 from just the one. They have a really lovely, relaxed and fun approach to sports day too and all the children appear to love it and look forward to it. It's managed very carefully. Ds is a child who needs to expend physical energy to enable him to mentally focus in lessons, otherwise he climbs the walls. He's not the only one by far. He doesn't, and shouldn't, get to opt out of academic lessons he's not as strong at or doesn't enjoy as much. While I agree that PE needs to be taught well and would benefit from a national review, I don't believe it should be banned or children should get to opt out. I always lacked confidence and hated role play and public speaking - I still had to do it and as much as I hated it, it did benefit me in the long run.

I am lucky. My son was removed from PE from the start of secondary school so I have had no issues with him. I went to school 35 years ago and schools have changed for the disabled. PE has not changed for people who simply hate it and there really is no point to it. Its just a waste of time on the timetable. By the time they pick their options it should be just that an option.

Well it worked out for me because as the class boffin my saving grace was that I was also on the netball team with all the bullies, who resisted beating crap out of me as they (correctly) realised that if they bullied me I wouldn't want to play anymore.

Music was another matter. People I was at school with still remember my end of year music "exam" where we had to sing solo in front of the whole class. Ah well. It was character building. If ever I'm a bit nervous before a presentation now I just think "at least I don't have to sing"

When I was looking at universities in 1970 I was put off Keele by a statement in its prospectus that every first year student was expected to do some sport. I was of course an experienced skiver but I immediately struck it off my list of possibles - I did not want to go anywhere with such a preposterous requirement. Does anyone happen to know when and how it was dropped?

"School PE is nothing like 40 years old. It is well taught in most schools"

I strongly beg to differ reallytired

PE in my DDs' school is exactly the kind of unrelenting misery it was for me 35 years ago. In fact more so, since my DC have the misfortune to attend a very highly achieving school in sport which leaves those who aren't naturally sporty marginalised, humiliated and bullied by the teachers

I'll give you an example. Last week my DD2 had to slog around (running) the school field ("cross country running") in the rain, being barracked and sexually heckled by the boys on the pitch playing a different sport, while being screamed at by the PE teacher who berated her for not trying hard enough and telling her she'd be fat by Christmas if she didn't try harder. All this in freezing conditions and light drizzle while wearing the regulation tiny skin-tight shorts.

Now, tell me how and why that will motivate my lovely, conscentious and clever girl to love sport and fitness

There are lots of subjects kids may not like or take to a school. We can't cater for every individual child's preferences.
PE is just as valuable as any other lesson and at least makes a change from sitting down all day.
Some kids don't like it but so what? We don't have to like everything.

BitoutofPractice
You could say the same for other subjects where a child hates it and gets told off by a teacher.
You need to confront how your daughters situation is handled and not advocate her not doing sports.

Gottagetmoving*
How many lessons are pupils required to strip down to minimal clothing and get screamed at by staff?

PE is different from other classes that children might not like. Because if you aren't sporty its an open door to 5 years of physical bullying disguised as, I was just tackling him, for example..

PE and Drama for that matter seem to be subjects where the teachers behave unprofessionally and it's not only condoned but encouraged, low level bullying and harassment by both sexes is ignored and anyone but the "cock" of the school seems to find the whole lessons a waste of time. So I'd conclude for many it is

The thing is at that PE is just out dated. Its a filler in lesson. I would be happy if kids did a bit of tai chi or something to wake them up and get them ready to work but instead of flooding our children with homework they could be concentrating on the core subjects that will actually get them a job during the school day. As I said make it an option but it needs to be revised its a waste of time and just something children can be bullied and humiliated with. It is of little use in everyday life

Haven't rtft, just bits but think PE shouldn't be compulsory, especially for those who have medical or learning disabilities. parents should be able to choose if their children participate.

We have the opposite, dd school do the bare minimum ito Drama and PE.
She would like to do more but there just isn't the opportunity. PE is one hour pw if lucky and Drama included in English approx 30 mins.
We did know this though and it's referred to and accepted in every Ofsted / ISI reports.