Stand up to cancer and animal testing

[OoerBlah]

First of all, I'm genuinely sorry for anyone who has lost someone they love to cancer. But I've been watching this thing and feeling increasingly uncomfortable. Initially it was just that cancer is so incredibly difficult to treat even after all these many years of research that it just seemed so mawkish and pointless.

But then I realised where all these millions of pounds will ultimately be going - to fund research which will no doubt be on millions of defenceless innocent animals and for what? Haven't we been doing that for years already and where are we.

People die. All species die of any number of illnesses. Why do humans feel entitled to use other species so mercilessly in the vain hope of prolonging our own lives?

Anyway. Sorry, but I'm not contributing to the further mass genocide of creatures who in no way deserve to live and die solely for human benefit.

RiverTam do you and your husband use any medicines?

Read my post, Whispering. I think it was pretty clear. DH's response is specifically with regard to cancer as Cancer Research are the biggest users of vivisection in the UK. And he may well change his mind.

My point is that it is possible to hold two views at the same time. My mother has cancer. I struggle with the idea of animals suffering to prolong the lives of humans who will have made animals lives a misery (we've all eaten battery chickens, for example). I'm dealing with both the personal and the academic.

It would be interesting to know how essential animal testing is. For example, here in the UK we can make and sell toiletries not tested on animals or that don't use ingredients tested on animals - a way must have been found to ensure these products are safe for human use. But China insists on all toiletries being first tested in animals (hence if you know a product is sold in Vhina, you know it will have been tested on animals). Even though it clearly isn't necessary.

So what's the position with regard to medication?

I repeat. My mum, dad and brother have all died of cancer (young), my brother a few months ago. My dm died of ovarian cancer when ds2 was aged 6 months. 18 months after that, my dh was diagnosed with non hodgkins lymphoma. He had months of chemo and surgery which was unsuccessful, but eventually had a successful stem cell transplant. I was juggling the school run for ds1, coping with a toddler who understandably didn't enjoy hospital visits, negotiating the motorway and hospital parking every single day for 8 weeks, 30 miles each way and having to get back for school pick up time. Dh developed post transplant graft versus host disease, which meant it was touch and go for a while and has left him with a life limiting chest condition.
Anyway, all went well after that until my df developed bladder cancer and died on ds1s thirteenth birthday.
We thought that's it, we've had our turn, but hey ho, my gorgeous brother died of pancreatic cancer in January this year after a long, hideous illness.
So OP, I'll take whatever research is necessary to prevent other people going through what I have. And maybe think about what you'd do, how you'd react if you went through even a tiny piece of what I've been through. It can happen to anyone you know, non smokers/ non drinkers (cancer is relentless and doesn't discriminate) - do you really, really not want there to be research into this hideous disease just because it hasn't touched you yet?

Subject of animal testing is much broader than 'cancer research' or fighting any other deadly illness. Also medical science is much more than animal testing.
Ethically, this subject is similar to anti-abortion, anti-war, etc. You can have any opinion that may radically change when it touches you personally.

Why are humans more important than animal lives?

Err, because we just are? We are, at the moment, the best evolution has to offer. Therefore everything below us is literally inferior by definition. Yes, we choose to have animals as pets and they're lovely and fluffy but at the end of the day they are not more important than us. Humanity is the current peak of evolution and sometimes we have to do things we dislike to preserve it.

As for the testing prisoners thing. Come on, let's be real here. Us testing drugs on prisoners would make us as bad as them.

I'll be cynical here, but prisoners are rather short in supply
However, people who go to military, quite often become test subjects for all sorts of shit without even knowing.

Bowiefan - Peter Scully (currently in jail in Indonesia) tortured, raped and murdered young Indonesian children - including babies. I would happily test drugs on him over animals - this could not make me worse than him.

rivertam I did read your post and your position wasn't clear to me, hence the follow up question

I fully support necessary proportionate well-regulated animal testing for medical reasons, I.e. The status quo.

I have a question for all the do-gooders. Are you blood donors? Have you given blood every single time you are eligible? Are you registered on the unrelated bone marrow transplant list? Do you carry an organ donor card? Ready to make a living donation? Because all of these things are human-to-human immediately beneficial things you can do at the cost of a little pain and suffering to yourself and you would be beyond hypocritical to insist animal testing be stopped if you won't even do the minimal yourself today to help others' lives and health.

Simmi1 - you don't think it would change something pretty fundamental in our justice system, society and basic humanity if we allowed 'slowly tortured to death over a prolonged period' to become a valid sentence for any crime?

Not to mention the possibility of wrongful convictions make the outcome of getting it wrong horrendous beyond measure.

Yes I agree with you 39up but what about cases like this where there is no doubt that he did it? Drug testing doesn't involve slowly torturing animals to death so why should it involve slowly torturing humans to death? I'm only talking about the worst crimes where there is no doubt.

slowly tortured to death over a prolonged period
But it is a necessary evil (to do to animals) so yourself or your loved ones would live. Interesting logic.

I don't believe animals are slowly tortured to death nataleejah

Fuck off Op. I hope No one you love dies a long and painful death due to cancer. I love animals. But I would kill to get a moment back with my mum just to tell her how much I love her (I was 13 when she died )
People who are cancer researchers are amazing imo.
Sorry animal lovers.
Cancer sucks balls.

Sorry about your mum onedaftmonkey

Nataleejah - yup. I do. I also eat animals, because they are tasty, and I wear leather and silk, both of which required animals to die. Because I do not believe that human and animal life are equivalent. I believe I owe animals a decent life where I can, and a quick and painless death. As such I only eat ethically sourced meat, I try for recycled fabrics where I can, and I also don't use cosmetics that have been tested on animals.

However, I have zero compunctions about a system which enables large numbers of humans to live. Because ultimately I believe that the greatest good in any given situation is one which saves the most human lives.

I also think that we don't just avoid committing certain acts on humans because they are not monsters. We don't do it because performing those acts turns us into monsters. Regardless of what they've done, the psychological impact on the prison staff, the executioner and on the society who lays down those penalties is a price it's never worth paying.

(And yes, I repeat, I totally privilege human life.)

It can't be easy for the researchers who test on animals to allow them to suffer and then kill them. I personally would rather see a human monster suffering and then dying than an innocent monkey.

Very controversial but I would also condone forceably taking a kidney from these kind of monsters so that say an innocent child could come off dialysis.

Shocking how many people are able to condone human rights abuses.

Not any human Jelly but the worst kind of criminals where there is no doubt. Google Peter Scully and tell me that this man deserves to live a reasonably comfortable life in prison after what he did to this poor innocent children.

Also the monsters who raped, tortured and killed the young woman in India when she got on their bus with her friend.
In India poor people are convinced to give up a kidney for money and are told it will grow back. This is obviously disgusting and I'm horrified this is happening in this day and age.

Bowiefan: I'm afraid your rational that humans are better than other species because we are the peak of evolution is fundamentally flawed: there is no such thing as a peak of evolution nor is there any evolutionary tree where we are at the top. As far as evolution is concerned we are no better than Cyanobacteria. We may think we are superior to other species, or special in some way, perhaps because we can create complex technology or for other reasons (e.g. Religious dogma) but these are superficial comparisons, and no evolutionary biologist would accept the idea of human superiority - it's a highly obsolete concept.

This is why the people that decide the punishment for criminals arent themselves involved.

Involved in what way Jelly? Involved as in related to the victim or just not involved in carrying out the actual punishment?

Agree with fluorine- Bowiefan, humans are certainly arrogant enough to think they are superior to all other species on Earth because they are more intelligent.

Actually, humans are the most destructive force this planet has ever seen. Our greed and selfishness are destroying Earth for all species that inhabit it. We are as a species capable of a level of gratuitous violence and extreme cruelty that unparalleled in other species.

We gorge ourselves on animal flesh even though there is no need to do so, often develop diseases as a result of eating so many dead animals, then test out cures for those diseases on more animals. No before anyone gets outraged I'm not suggesting that all diseases are self inflicted. We have enough food to feed everyone on the planet yet we feed it to animals to fatten them up so that we can eat them while millions of other humans starve.

Yeo, humans are just the best.

I'm pretty sure if sentient intelligent beings from another planet were tasked with sorting out Earth's problems, the first thing they'd do is remove most of the humans!

Re animal testing, if it came down to it then yes I would sacrifice an animal to save the life of a human I love. Just like as a vegan I would eat meat if I had to to survive. Neither of these actions would necessarily be morally right though. The idea that some lives matter more than others is the root of much of what is wrong with the world.