Stand up to cancer and animal testing

[OoerBlah]

First of all, I'm genuinely sorry for anyone who has lost someone they love to cancer. But I've been watching this thing and feeling increasingly uncomfortable. Initially it was just that cancer is so incredibly difficult to treat even after all these many years of research that it just seemed so mawkish and pointless.

But then I realised where all these millions of pounds will ultimately be going - to fund research which will no doubt be on millions of defenceless innocent animals and for what? Haven't we been doing that for years already and where are we.

People die. All species die of any number of illnesses. Why do humans feel entitled to use other species so mercilessly in the vain hope of prolonging our own lives?

Anyway. Sorry, but I'm not contributing to the further mass genocide of creatures who in no way deserve to live and die solely for human benefit.

You lost your Grandad to cancer? And you still think cancer treatments shouldn't be tested on animals? I can't get my head around that at all. Not all cancers are curable obviously but treatments exist to help extend humans life's - are you really saying you wouldn't want treatment for you or a loved one because it's been tested on animals? Because that's what it sounds like to me. And human lives do mean more than animals at the end of the day.

OP have you ever had any medical treatment or used any medication? If so then you're a bit hypocritical no?

Yanbu to feel like this, many do. There is so many things in the world that people are affecting by differently, be that animals or humans, or nature etc... everyone has THAT cause that's gets them.

There is no wrong or right for me here, in order to gain knowledge, something/someone suffers, no right, no wrong, it's a full circle of inevitable suffering.

Although I agree that animal testing is awful and we need to find alternatives, at the moment it's a necessary evil. Make sure you don't fund any other charities that aim to cure disease however and don't use any medicine either.....or many sun creams. I also hope neither you nor any of your nearest and dearest become ill as the treatment will have been tested. No one likes animal testing, so you starting this thread doesn't mean you dislike it any more you know.

And there are many funding research fields trying to fund alternative types of research such as NC3R and FRAME ... there are others

I think there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the ethics of animal research, a positive benefit in looking for alternatives but until we can grow human bodies with no brain function in a lab ( which is a bit creepy and would involve animal testing to develop)animal testing has to exist.

Nataleejah

What absolute fucking bollocks. Cannabis is good for one thing and one thing only - as a pain relief. My friend with MS has it and it does help her with the pain and doesn't leave her with the migraines that usual painkillers do.

It cannot cure or prevent cancer and it's dangerous people like you who are causing people to die from cancer because they're refusing actual treatments and taking "alternative" medicines.

Alternative medicines are bullshit. Know why? Because we found the ones that worked and they're called medicine. Big pharma isn't stopping anything. Why? Because if they worked, Big Pharma would be selling them itself!

I work in cancer research OP, I hope you or your relatives never have to experience one of your loved ones suffering from this awful disease
And btw survival rates have increased over the years BECAUSE OF RESEARCH ( and it's not all done on animals now anyway )

Cannabis and cannabinoids have been found to help in cancer studies in mice .... but suspect that's more to do with delivery medically rather than sparking up a joint when you fancy. Specific amounts delivered in specific ways

Cosmetic testing - you're absolutely right, no need for it.

Medical - I'm alive because of testing. Drugs that stopped bad asthma attacks, surgical procedures piloted in pigs. One of the meds I take is also used in chemo in much higher doses and I'd be much more disabled than I am without it.

I hate the idea but there's very little alternative at the moment.

Bowiefan

Completely agree.

A Facebook friends little boy died of neuroblastoma very young. Some complete arsehole kept posting that cannabis cures all conspiracy shite on his wall.

then keep your fucking mouth shut

what a way to put your arguments forward. How is that helping. It's important that people can have a healthy debate and present various arguments.

mudandmayhem0 I think there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the ethics of animal research, a positive benefit in looking for alternatives

Very well said. I don't know what to think about the brainless bodies, this is scary thoughts. Of course my own kids come first, and it would be ridiculous to deny the work that has already been achieved. However, why not thinking of better alternatives for the future?

What flumpy said. There are medical trials on components of cannabis in cancer treatments. Not toking on a joint but extracts delivered scientifically.

Agreed Bowiefan. The friends and family of the top executives at big pharmas get cancer too. Imagine not using a cure because keeping it a secret as a way to make money was more important. Conspiracy theorists also believe the government is in on this too which just seems absolutely ridiculous.

Where I live lots of houses get mice. Like most locals I go for humane no-kill traps first, then snap traps. People then use non-humane glue traps if they can't sort the problem any other way, though I haven't.

I've also killed about 500 mice during my career, all humanely, plus injected about four rabbits. I was researching something else but turned out the gene whose functions I was investigating happens to be critical in some nasty forms of breast cancer, and now a treatment for those is available.

The lab mice had much nicer accommodation than the students - the wry comment was that students were easier to replace...

Drop the Millions of Innocent Animals arguement. Look at it this way.
In the early 1970's the Nixon administration promised unlimited fuinding for cancer research, decades and billions of dollars later they had not one single result.
Mice are the lab animal most often used in cancer animal based research. Mice most commonly suffer from sarcomas and humans most commonly suffer from carcinomas.
If you are opposed to animal testing there are good reasons, but people wont listen if you use the suffering of millions of animals arguement. There are good scientific reasons not to use lab animals.
There are also computer modelling and in vitro techniques that use human cells or models.

Cancer is not one disease and there will never be 'a cure for cancer'. Just becasue its an emotive issue doesnt mean we shouldnt be able to discuss this.
And yes I have lost relatives to cancer.
Burt you dont have to take my word for it. Some doctors and scientists are also saying we need a new apprio=oach to the way we prevent, manage and treat cancers.
www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/15/lets-stop-trying-to-cure-cancer-says-cancer-professor/

OP you do not need to contribute to any charity whose aims and objectives you disagree with. That is perfectly reasonable.

The reason you are getting a hard time is because of your callous attitude to people dying. "People die " is really not how you think when you lose a loved one when they are young.

"Anyway. Sorry, but I'm not contributing to the further mass genocide of creatures who in no way deserve to live and die solely for human benefit." Well fine, you're a vegan or animal rights activist, but personally I eat meat and I don't think it's wrong. We have evolved as omnivores, remember, and hunter gathering is a key part of how we are wired. And yes, of course I know it's possible to eat healthily without animal products.

Do you get off on upsetting people who have lost people early to cancer? Or who have been through that treadmill themselves (normally with life long consequences)? Your post is unkind and thoughtless.

And all those mentions of alternatives therapies for cancer? Well as soon as anything is shown to work it'll be picked up, you can be sure of that.

Sorry OP but animal testing is the only way we know what happens if we take our medications

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for animal testing

The only thing I don't agree with is
Animal testing for food
Animal testing for cosmetics

Some people do hold these opinions and they are allowed to-I am so sick of the piling in mentality on here and refusal to even debate beyond telling the OP to 'fuck off'.

They can hold what opinions they like. To come to MN where so many people have lost children and young relatives to cancer to talk about them is insensitive and cruel.

So yes, 'fuck off' is pretty appropriate.

She is a troll, she/he hasn't been back, I even suspect some sock puppetry as well so I've reported it.

Her comment 'people die' is disgusting. They do die, the elderly are meant to die, young children and young adults aren't meant to die. If testing on animals can stop one family from going through what my children went through I would offer the animals on a plate myself. I am a big animal lover, but people first.

I have reported the 'fuck off' comments too. I am not surprised that she hasn't been back.
The sheer aggression shown is not going to make that possible.

As I said before, lots of people hold opinions similar to this and are allowed to. They are allowed to discuss it too.

It would be very rare to find anyone who has not lost a close relative or friend to cancer, it touches all of us unfortunately.

And you can do one if you are accusing me of being a sock puppet too, been here for 13 years and MN can tell if you are doing that.

Just had enough of the abuse that gets doled out on here.

I wasn't accusing you actually. I recognised your user name straight away.

OP scientists aren't delighted to do animal testing but if you have ever taken any drug then it will have been tested on an animal at some point.
I think that this should be stamped on all bags when people pick up a prescription.
Incidentally a lot of beauty products still are tested on animals. That is a problem. Not medical research.
Cancer is increasingly becoming a chronic disease due to research.

I would have like to discuss it as I have been inside a primate testing area in a university and found it incredibly upsetting. I would have liked to talk on here about that but as usual it gets shut down by those who shout loudest.

My db died of a brain tumour three years ago, it doesn't give me the right to tell other posters to fuck off.

It's a very, very complicated subject.

I have a friend who develops pharmaceutical drugs. He knows I am very anti-testing when it comes to cosmetics / household cleaning products etc... I accept that pharmaceutical testing is a complicated grey area.

In the UK it is highly regulated. Breeding / transporting / conditions under test / euthanasia is all monitored. Partly to ensure welfare standards. Partly that these animals are worth £X amount in terms of the R&D total spend. Also, you can't test on an unhealthy animal or one that don't meet the test parameters. Your test would be invalid / not reliable.

However, lots of research is done out of the U.K. (see Monkey World link), where regulations are not as stringent as in the UK. UK/ multinational companies do use non UK research testing.

Animals can be used for multiple research testing - different drugs for different conditions.

Welfare of the test animals covers the physical but not mental. We're not just using fruit flys or mice. Depending on the length of testing / incubation / longitudinal type studies, these animals can be alive a long time - in isolated conditions. Never out of their cages unless it's for testing. They can and do suffer mentally.

Researchers are learning more and more about animal behaviours / physiology. For instance, all octopi / squids now must be given pain relief before being cut. They have a fully developed central nervous system which of course means they feel pain. Why on earth did we think it was right to cut them without pain relief before??? Also animal physiology and therefore reactions to drugs are different animal to animal (including us). As an example, Leishmanisis is curable in us, but not in dogs. We're both mammals - so what's the difference?

Many drugs that are developed never meet the threshold for animal testing. Many go through and fail at this stage.
More worryingly are the ones that go on to human test stage and then fail and the ones that pass human testing and fail once in use commercially.

My line in the sand is no tested cosmetics / personal care / household cleaning products.
Do I need my whites, whiter? Do I need my hair shinier? Why does bleach need to be re-tested? I also use non- test dog food manufacturers.

But I do not condone violence against researchers / labs. Which is why labs are now (mostly) underground. Building contractors have heavy non talk clauses and Huntingdon Life Sciences have a non identifying marker for the London Stock Exchange.

If you have any investments / pensions etc... chances are your money is being invested into pharma ie research (testing).

www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/articles/2009/03/24/monkey_world_capucin_one_year_on_feature.shtml

www.lushprize.org/wp-content/uploads/Lush-Prize-animal-testing-failures-2015.pdf