'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

[DoinItFine]

Your idea of consent isn't everyones.

Yes, lots of rapists have funny ideas about consent.

We even get to prosecute some of them.

[ComfortingKormaBalls]

Pinky Of course Light doesn't have to answer, but I can only make assumptions as to your objection.

I think that brings me to the end of this thread.

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Oh I don't mind. I'm used to people like that.

I stayed with him because he was my first proper boyfriend and every time I tried to end it he'd cry and beg for forgiveness with big puppy dog eyes in an all consuming way. I felt sorry for him. Because once when I tried to get away he trapped me on a balcony with a knife and threatened to kill us both so it got to the point that I was scared of what he'd do, because he convinced me it wasn't really abuse, after all I wasn't walking around with black eyes, he'd only bitten me, because I'd provoked him of course. Because he eroded my confidence and convinced me that I was fat ugly and useless, but of course he loved me, so I was lucky to have someone.

To the outside world he was the victim and I was the horrible girl that kept breaking his heart.

Anyway, I didn't deserve to be raped.

I don't believe there are blurred lines because even if a woman is butt naked doing a lap dance it takes a second to ask her "can I fuck you", it takes a second to ask if she's enjoying it.

Unless of course you are saying that men have no control over their penises once they are aroused. In which case a short skirt must mean she's asking for it, because that's the route you go down.

[slenderisthenight]

pinky

you can argue until you are blue in the face but...

And there you are again insisting, in your patronising way, that it doesn't matter how much a little woman argues or makes reference to what her own experiences have shown her, it won't change the 'facts' which only you and your cronies, for some eternally undefined reason, are in a position to know.

I don't need to argue until I'm blue in the face because you have no power and I don't need to change your mind.

Your chauvinistic men minus the cocks in your complete inability to recognise that your own experiences don't equip you to make any proclamations about what is always true for every other woman's sexual encounters. And it is only here in this bubble that your perspective is dominant.

The best thing to do with such people, I find, is to leave them making their assertions and go live in the real world.

[Isitadoubleentendre]

It may be well down on your list of concerns that they will be accused, but it is not well down on mine, as I have seen at work the damage that false allegations do,

What the fuck are you talking about? What has rare false allegations of abuse against teachers in schools (and lets not forget that these sorts of allegations are almost always made by very vulnerable children who have a lot of shit going on) got to do with teaching your sons about consent? Unless they are shagging school kids?

Never has there been a more apt username than scary teacher. Scary indeed.....

What you have said that you have taught your sons about consent is quite frankly, disgusting. You have taught them that consent is important because women àre not to be trusted and any sexual encounter could result in them being accused of rape. You don't appear to say anywhere that you haventaught them that consent js important because women have the right to say what goes into their own bodies.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Isitadoubleentendre]

Oh and I really wish people would stop with the whole 'not all women are loud and confident in bed you know, how are men supposed to know if they are quiet'?

Im not exactly a swinging-from-the-chandelier-screaming-in-ecstasy type of sexual partner. Im fairly quiet and still relatively reserved in that respect. Funnily enough my DH has managed to be able to 'read the signs' and never rape me.

I dunno, maybe he has some sort of super hero Spidey sense that mere mortal man just cannot be expected to use when having sex?

[PinkyOfPie]

slender you don't even make any sense anymore, you're just waffling and trying to point score. You can argue that consent is a grey area, it really isn't. I don't know how many times I can say that. And your disdain for women really shines through.

When on earth have I said my own experience echoes everyone's?

And the irony of being told that I need to live in the real world by someone who reckons consent is not binary is hilarious

[Lighthouseturquoise]

The excuses people will make for rape are beyond belief.

Now rape is a class issue. Ffs.

[PinkyOfPie]

YEs isit - according to people on this thread, there are three types of men- ones who don't rape, ones who do, and ones who can't figure out if they are. I'll say it til the cows come home, if anyone is in either of the latter camps please abstain from sex as you cannot be trusted!

[DeleteOrDecay]

I can't quite believe what I've read on this thread this morning comforting you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Isitadoubleentendre]

Light I'm sorry for your experience but can I ask why you stayed with your boyfriend if he bit, squeezed and strangled you? (Genuine)

Wow comforting. Notwithstanding all the absolute bollocks you have spouted on this thread (working class men don't know about consent -wtaf???) the fact that you even have to ask the above question confirms you don't really have any business posting on this thread.

[Isitadoubleentendre]

And as unfair as it may seem to some, a woman is allowed to withdraw consent at any time, for any reason.

She could have consensually shagged 10 other guys that night. She could have the next man naked and ready to go. But if she decides actually, 'i dont want him to put his penis inside me' and doesnt want to go ahead, then he can't. Unless he wants to rape her.

Yes that would be pretty shitty behaviour on her part, maybe a bit unfair on the guy (although no ones dick is going to fall off or anything) but its her prerogative. Her body, her choice. Thats it.

[ComfortingKormaBalls]

Light Obviously I am going to say 'well why did you stay in an unhealthy relationship?', but its easy to look back and think why did I make those decisions. Thank you for being open.

I have told my DDs to leave at the first signs of violence, or any unhealthy, controlling or manipulative behaviour before it escalates into something far more serious. And to have an education and money so you ARE able to leave.

True feminists would work with other organisations and groups to seek a better world for men and women, not disregard what others have to say or shout insults or twist words.

[DeleteOrDecay]

I have told my DDs to leave at the first signs of violence, or any unhealthy, controlling or manipulative behaviour before it escalates into something far more serious.

See the problem with is that yes in theory it's very sound advice but the reality is very different. Many victims of abuse don't even realise their relationship is abusive until they are well within the throes of it by which point leaving isn't as easy or as simple as it sounds. Abusive people can be sneaky like that.

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Comforting you can tell them but it doesn't mean it will never happen. Abuse can creep up on you.

If your boyfriend punched you in the face on the first date most of us would never see him again right? But it doesn't happen like that, usually by the time it gets really violent you're already deep into it.

I'm afraid to say if you're telling your daughters that there are blurred lines around consent, that women generally lie and lads don't really understand consent, you're setting them up to fail.

That's exactly why I got into that situation, because the lines were blurred between real abuse and what was happening to me. It started off with a pinch on my leg during a 'play fight' that bruised and hurt. He didn't mean it of course. Next leaning on you in bed 'by accident' It escalates slowly, by the time you realise they're full on deliberately hurting you it's more difficult.

Abusers can be very, very manipulative and charming. The biggest highs and the lowest lows usually followed by periods of being lovely and lots of making up for things.

[PinkyOfPie]

True feminist think I'll define what I am thank you.

And call me crazy but I would rather focus a movement about women's liberation on women rather than men

[ManonLescaut]

A young man not realise an unresponsive partner is not consenting

Yeah like Brock Turner.

[ComfortingKormaBalls]

Abuse can creep up on you I agree with that, which is why women need educating to recognise abuse quickly and be able to leave, BUT whenever someone suggests women be educated theres uproar and demands only men need educating, and accusations of being rape apologists Which is it to be?

[DoinItFine]

So the solution to male abuse of women is education of women too?

What else that is done by men can we fix by educating women?

Teach them to be thrifty so they csn get by on less money and fuck all pension?

[venusinscorpio]

I really think it's you who needs educating, comforting.

[YetAnotherHelenMumsnet]

Hi there, we have received some reports about this thread and tried to make sensible deletions that still let the gist of the conversation come through. We would ask that everyone familiarise themselves with our We Believe You campaign www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/we-believe-you-campaign-rape-myths-busted and consider whether they are inadvertently promoting myths about rape. Please, though, do cut out the personal attacks, thanks.

[PinkyOfPie]

The MNHQ rape myths busters is extremely useful and I encourage the likes of scary, mumof, comforting and slender to have a good look at them as you have all uttered at least one of them at some point