'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

Didnt say she was its

Yes, if it's their first time together and she hasn't explained how she is.

Actually, if a woman consistently gives no non-verbal sign of consent at all, then her partner needs to ask every time. Consent yesterday doesn't mean consent today, and if she is literally soundless and motionless, asking is the only solution. Every single time.

slender I think you've misunderstood many posters' points. No one has said there shouldn't be education around consent. They have said that "I don't understand consent" is not be an acceptable excuse for rape, and not the default position of men. Many of us have also objected to educating women on how not to get raped, it is that which perpetuates rape myths

Gwen. As you acknowledge, in a ONS or the first time with someone the man should check if the woman is quiet and motionless before he sticks his cock in her. It's not about you and your sexual habits. You have every right to behave any way you want to, but please stop trying to excuse rapey men.

"No kissing, no touching,"

Rufus, I admitted I'm crap in bed. Why would you be so nasty as to criticise me for it? When did I say 'no kissing'? I said I wouldn't stick my tongue down his throat, not really the same thing.
When did I say no touching? There may be touching during foreplay. No sounds can't really be helped, I'm not going to put on a performance.

"I am not trying to be mean"

I think you are, you're prude shaming.

You're just being a goady fucker now.

if in doubt ask

This rests on the assumption that there will always be some tangible sign that women don't want to proceed.

No it absolutely doesn't. Doubt doesn't have to arise from a tangible sign of non-consent. It should also arise from the absence of a tangible sign of consent.

In fact, if a man is operating on the basis that it's all systems go unless and until he gets a tangible sign of non-consent, he's being reckless and likely to rape someone.

slender

I get confused with your posts. It appears that you're trying to legislate for something that remains ill-defined in the eyes of a would-be rapist. So if you've got any suggestion to make, please go ahead.

Education on consent is, of course, a good thing. But you've given a hypothetical situation which might happen despite that. I honestly don't know what would happen if a woman faked enthusiasm with bells on, but remained adamant in her head that she wasn't participating. Marriage guidance might be a suggestion. But, again - any more ideas would be useful.

In terms of consent education, it doesn't solve the problem. It's not that posters disagree with it, it's because it doesn't work and totally shifts the focus from what DOES work, and in doing so, makes women culpable in some small way.

The only thing that will work for a non-psychopathic rapist is the sure-fire knowledge that juries understand why rape myths are employed by defence teams. He knows, when he's up before the judge, every man and woman on the jury has 'the knowledge'. Conviction rates go up, punishment is forthcoming, deterrent is employed.

Saying i feel sorry for someone isnt patronising

I am sure gwen is very happy with her sex life

I am very surprised that someone can lie there literally motionless with no sounds and no touching

If thats the way they like it then fair play to them

"It's not about you and your sexual habits. You have every right to behave any way you want to"

Well, it is about me really because the enthusiastic consent movement is all about teaching that there is only one proper way of having sex. It's not really teaching about consent at all.

I am not excusing "rapey" men at all.

If the enthusiastic consent movement teaches that it has one aim, to make it harder to get away with raping someone. Do you have a problem with that? Really?

"gwen if you are inhibited like that, how do you make sure your partners know you are up for it?"

Felas - if I wasn't, I would say so. I appreciate that might not be as easy if someone is scared of their partner.

I am not prude shaming i just said i was bad in bed as well

I got confused by this bit

"Absolute bollocks."

No, it's not bollocks. There are 34 pages so I can't copy the examples, but similar things were used as 'enthusiastic consent'.

"As for all these women who thoroughly enjoy sex as their man pumps away into them whilst they lie there completely motionless with absolutely no signal that they having a nice time, every time they have sex......really?????"Um, yeah, it does happen. Sorry I'm crap in bed, can't really help it. It doesn't mean anyone who has sex with me is a rapist.*

I took that to mean that you just lay motionless...cos you said you did...yeah it does happen...you said

You don't think you've isolated yourself from posters who would have posted on the thread but haven't because of the way alternative points of view are responded to? I know you have. If you and your cronies weren't so abusive, there would be posts on the thread instead of in my inbox

TBH like I said earlier if people require feminists to be nicey-nice in order to listen to them I really don't give a shit if they don't want to engage with me. It's about quality not quantity. And it seems that if people (I'm assuming like itsmine who has also spouted rape myths on other threads) inboxing you, they're not the type of people who should be contributing to a thread about rape myths.

I find it slightly amusing that people are more offended when it's pointed out that they're an apologist than they are about the fact that so many women are raped yet so few men are convicted for it

Itsmine - as far as I can see, every feminist on this thread has advocated men asking if there is any doubt as to consent.

"If the enthusiastic consent movement teaches that it has one aim, to make it harder to get away with raping someone. "

How does it make it harder to get away with raping someone? A rapist is by definition someone who doesn't care whether the victim consents.

I appreciate that might not be as easy if someone is scared of their partner.

Yes, I think that's something of an understatement, Gwen.

Gwen - the rapist may not care, but if society gave a shit then it would be harder for them to get away with it. Because they'd be convicted.

Rufus, I don't understand your point. Yes, I do lie motionless during sex (not necessarily during foreplay). Sorry that offends you. (Actually not sorry at all, I don't think I have to win any good lover competitions).

WomanWith - can you explain what you mean?

Because many rapey men rely on an element of coercion, but they might balk at going all the way and forcing someone who actively told them no. There are people on this forum who don't agree a rape occurred unless the man was told no. That is another rape myth.

"Fgs you couldn't make this shit up. I'm sure Gwen's not after any sympathy for her partner confused"

Thanks for the support itsmine. Luckily for Rufus, no poor man has to suffer me at the moment.

Oh for goddness sake are you reading my posts?

I AM THE SAME AS YOU

Very inhibited (bit embarrassed at times) but i will kiss dh and stroke his hair and he knows that i am having a nice time

I dont give a shit about your sex life

You infered that you lie motionless with no sign you are enjoying yourself

You 'said' that

i was very surprised thats all