DH being U about baby in restaurant?

[StripedSwad]

We are on holiday with 3 month BF baby. There's a fancy restaurant on site which we are booked in to

we have his mother with us, who will babysit, but she would need to bring baby down to us if he needs to be fed. Restaurant has said no to this as is adults only.

DH thinks this is terrible and wants to complain as baby will only be down a short while and purely for feeding, whereas I think it's just one of those things you accept with a baby and we will just have to eat elsewhere. So who is right?

Anyone care to venture a comment on why behaviour like drinking (presumably too much), swearing, badmouthing, talking about race and religion, and various other forms of coarseness, crudeness, and crassness are considered something to look forward to after a week in the company of your lovely children?

Because its fun? You might remember adult fun if you can tear yourself away long enough.

Adults only restaurants. You knew that on making the booking. If they let you feed your baby, the next night they will have the people sat opposite wanting to bring their darling 4 grandchildren. And another couple wanting to bring their toddler, who's very well behaved, it will turn into McDonald's. Where will it end, if I book somewhere, that says adults only and a woman is their breastfeeding her baby, sorry and all that, but I'd complain.

It's ages and stages really.
When you're in the baby/small child zone having DC with you much of the time becomes the norm and it's easy to forget that other people aren't used to it.
My DC are older now and DH & I often eat and stay in Adults Only environments, we've had years of child rearing and really enjoy the different environment.
I wouldn't complain about a baby in a restaurant but would probably roll my eyes a bit.

Went to a very nice, expensive restaurant a while back. I hardly ever have a night out away from my dc, so was looking forward to a lovely dinner with my dh. I organised and paid for a babysitter for my dc. Get to restaurant, sit down and a few minutes later a couple sit at the table next to us with a baby! I requested to move tables...I have previous few child free evenings out and I'm certainly not paying for a babysitter to then spend my evening sitting next to someone else's dc.

Precious not previous!

User 147 - It's more hooliganism than fun though. Imo it's not really adult behaviour either.
When it comes to bringing up your children to be responsible adults, is it a case of 'Do as I say, not as I do'? How does that work? I hope it works better for you than I have seen it work for some of my fellow parents of teens and twentysomethings.

My DCs are now aged 15 to 26, so they are nearly all off doing their own thing at this point. 'Child free' time comes faster than you may dare to hope.

In my experience of the US, people are far more baby and child friendly than the Brits are and are not so precious about their 'adult' status.

Sounds like a dog in the manger attitude, Formerbabe.

Why can't you accept that other people want or need time away from their children? Not everyone is the same as you! You sound absolutely insufferable.

To want time away from your child is one thing but to ask to be moved in a restaurant if someone else's child comes near is pretty ungracious. People don't bring their children out in the evening to spite you, mock you, or make you feel like an eejit for paying for a babysitter.

You can get away from your babies and children without getting suckered into overpaying for a night out in a place that looks down its nose at babies or think it's acceptable to turn breastfeeding mothers into pariahs or people who have to apologise for their choice to breastfeed and go elsewhere to do it. It is not a distasteful or disgusting thing to do in public or in private. It is not uncivilised. The idea that the evening out of alleged grown ups would be ruined by the presence of a baby breastfeeding is really troubling.

You can also spend time away from your babies and children without setting up some really unhealthy division in your head between 'human' and 'adult' on the one hand and 'mother' on the other.

Society would be a lot more healthy if we all supported better integration of women when they become mothers and supported the breastfeeding relationship. It is very sad to see people remarking that they want to feel human.

Because in addition to being a mother, I'm also a human being. That didn't stop when I became a mother.
It would be nice if 'humans' could be mothers too when they feel like it, in their time off work. Or if we could resist the temptation to tell mothers they are indulging themselves or making a holy show of themselves if they 'insist on foisting their precious darlings on sensible grown ups' (or words to that effect).

'Rough club' 'hooliganism' '$99
'Other people's kids are like the kids you are trying to get away from'
math the only snooty and pretentious sounding thing on here is you.
give insufferable is right.

Maybe you would like to tell me what sort of a club is the kind of place where anyone would need to be asked to watch their language?

I think it's probably a mistake to assume other people's kids are like the kids you are trying to get away from.
Why else would someone ask to be moved?
If someone had an open mind about a baby they encountered in a restaurant it is unlikely they would ask to be moved. The only reason to ask to me moved is because you expected the worst.

Or it might be, a case of umbrage that other people didn't pander to the sense of entitlement and/or dog in the manger attitude.

I am not the person who posted on a thread in a public forum that I wanted so badly to get away from my children that I was willing to pay for a dinner in a place that charges a premium for its 'ambiance'.

Math I am both an adult and a human, however I am not a mother. I work with children but chose to keep my personal life child-free. Why does it matter to you if I chose to pay a premium to eat in an adults only restaurant, or discretely ask to be sat at a able away from children? Or are my choices less valid because I haven't procreated.l?

To want time away from your child is one thing but to ask to be moved in a restaurant if someone else's child comes near is pretty ungracious

I completely disagree. We were in an expensive restaurant at 8pm (not a pizza joint at lunchtime). The meal was about £150, our babysitter cost about £30/35. It was a very rare night out from my then toddler and baby...no way was I prepared to spend a romantic meal with my dh sitting next to someone else with their baby. It was not, IMO, an appropriate place to bring young children. Id expect babies and children around in family friendly restaurants or during the daytime but not an expensive restaurant in the evening.

formerbabe how very dare you ask to be moved away from the children! You mean snotty person

I don't understand why some people think if you want an evening out without your own children, this means you want to be forced to sit with other people's children.

i think it is totally reasonable you asked to move! I wish I had the guts to!

It doesn't matter to me why you choose to spend too much for a meal out. It matters if you choose to be snooty and ask to be moved when you encounter a baby in your restaurant of choice. It matters because of what you are telling the mother of that baby about her status in society.

The fact that you haven't reproduced is not the issue - it's the fact that those who have are not acceptable in your presence until they become 'human' or 'adult' and the fact that this means, 'you must leave their babies behind'.

It also matters in the broader sense that someone would choose to patronise an establishment that sidelines breastfeeding women. Would you choose to go somewhere that declines admission to other classes of people? Would you ask to be moved if you didn't like the look of the people at the next table - if one had a really annoying laugh, or slurped his soup, or had a hacking cough, or bad BO, or any other personal tics that interfered with your romantic night out? There are many other qualities you might object to - you pay a lot for your meal and it annoys the pants off you that the people next door are paying with a voucher, have an accent you find grating, whatever...

When babies can be barred from restaurants and you choose to patronise them or not to challenge their policy, you encourage the fencing in and sense of disempowerment of breastfeeding women, which in turn contributes to poor breastfeeding rates, and early dropping of breastfeeding.

The 'you've made your bed and now you have to lie in it' tone used on this thread in comments expanding on why women have to choose between their baby and their night out illustrate a punitive attitude towards women who have a baby in their lives. Motherhood has a low enough status in society - there is no need to treat breastfeeding women as if they have to accept a period as pariahs before they qualify as fully human or adult members of society again. The attitude is misogynistic. Difficulty adapting to the maternal role is a factor in the development of PND. As a society we should not be contributing to that difficulty by excluding babies from restaurants. The choice foisted on women is not civilised and not pro mother.

The problems that persist in integrating parenthood (motherhood more than fatherhood) with wider society in both work and leisure are a huge social and cultural problem and they exact a disproportionate toll on women.

The meal was about £150, our babysitter cost about £30/35.
Kali, care to comment?

Jesus math,

but do continue as you're hilarious in an entitled parent way 😂😂😂

god, insufferable is the word isn't it?!
Look- it's not about breastfeeding mothers being pariahs, or restaurants being up themselves, or people being snooty, let's be done
With the emoting and tell it like it is.

Some venues are adult only. Some people choose to go to them. End of.
If you prefer to eat out in family restaurants that's your prerogative too.
Try unclenching and live and let live.

(Speaking as a committed breastfeeder of 3 now grown up children, who chose to have child free evenings on occasions)

I spend a huge amount of money at the Royal Opera House where small children are not allowed thank goodness. Is that wrong too then Math?

Math, what about a nightclub? Should a baby be allowed there, so as not to prevent the breastfeeding mother from going?
Serious question, because following your line of thought this scenario would also be perfectly reasonable.
What about a strip club?

If you don't think a baby should be allowed in there, are they really the only child free places we have left? Nightclubs, strip clubs and maybe casinos? Are adults who want adult only spaces really only going to be given those three options for entertainment?

DH is B a bit U. Does the resort have other options for eating with the whole family?
It sounds like they've explicitly designated this space for grown-up suppers.
While it's sweet he's supporting you feeding, it would also be lovely for you to have time together.
I've fed 4 and it's always been my call as to where and when I'd be happy feeding them.

Hmm, thread moved. Math I agree with your post, pretty much all of it.
Sidelining women because of their caring responsibilities, while absolving men from the same, is a big part of why we undervalue and lose so much of our talented female workforce.
Things don't happen in isolation. A small baby brought in to be fed in a restaurant is very different from toddlers bouncing and shouting.
It's not about our little precious darlings being adored by everyone; it's about enabling women to span the bridge between motherhood and being seen as an autonomous adult.

If adult-only places allow BF babies in, it opens the door for every entitled parent to insist on being allowed to bring their toddler or 6 year old in.

I'm a big supporter of the lactavist movement but some places simply are adult-only. I don't think sneering at people who occasionally drink, swear or "talk about religion" (gasp!!) and using words like coarse and crude to describe them is really helpful. Actually I think promoting the idea mothers should act like Mary Poppins 24/7 and never talk about serious global or social issues because it's somehow unseemly for a woman to have a brain is a lot more problematic.

I personally find it shocking people consider having discussions about crucial political and social issues like religion and race issues "coarse, crude and crass."

Is this a throwback to times when it was considered impolite to discuss serious issues in mixed company? In previous centuries women were discouraged from any form of intellectual activity, even reading, because 'scientists' believed it would redirect "uterine energy" towards the brain and anger the uterus, causing infertility and hysteria. You'd hope we'd have moved on since then. I recommend the seminal feminist work "The Yellow Wallpaper" for more on this subject.

If MIL can bring baby to you surely you could go to the baby if you were inable to go between feeds?

Yabu just pick a child friendly restaurant if you want to bring your child even for a short time. Why everyone who chooses to go to an adult only dining venue should have to suffer your pfb is beyond me?

Pre kids I would also choose a child free eating environment and holidays with an adult only pool!!