DH being U about baby in restaurant?

[StripedSwad]

We are on holiday with 3 month BF baby. There's a fancy restaurant on site which we are booked in to

we have his mother with us, who will babysit, but she would need to bring baby down to us if he needs to be fed. Restaurant has said no to this as is adults only.

DH thinks this is terrible and wants to complain as baby will only be down a short while and purely for feeding, whereas I think it's just one of those things you accept with a baby and we will just have to eat elsewhere. So who is right?

Of course mothers and fathers should be able to take their babies and children everywhere.

So why so much angst about breastfeeding mothers? Surely, if parents can go anywhere with their DCs, then the issue of breastfeeding would be moot? You seem to be diluting your own argument.

I am 52 and going strong.

A mere babe, but if you continue getting so angry, you may find your left expectancy falling - pesky thing, scientific evidence.

I am a feminist. Does that qualify me to be described as a seething mass of whatever?

I am also a feminist. But feminists don't fight for equality for children - so fairly irrelevant to this discussion, I would have thought?

Do you think women should sit back and accept every shitty thing society deems for for us to put up with?

What, like abolishing child-free spaces? No, I don't think we should put up with it - hence why I disagree with you on that point.

What rights would women have today if women themselves had not organised and identified problems and fought against them?
Think of a few elements of your life that you may take for granted
-University education
Professional career
The vote
Reproductive rights
Right to divorce
Right to custody of your children after divorce
Any more?

We've always enjoyed all those rights, yes?

I don't take any of those things for granted - why would you think that? I would be so bold to say that I'm probably more familiar with key milestones in the fight for women's equality in the uk than you are.

But in any event, they are unrelated to the issue of child-free spaces, which is the cause you have said you are championing. Child free spaces are not exclusively targeted at women; fathers are equally affected by the convention in society that some spaces are either unsuitable for children, or the environment in that space deteriorates when children are present.

'Child free' spaces are sidelining breastfeeding women because they do not admit the babies whom the breastfeeding women breastfeed. Women are welcome to stay away if they choose to breastfeed, or they are welcome without their babies. Breastfeeding women are therefore faced with an either/or that other women and of course men do not face.

You can't be pro breastfeeding and at the same time insist on or support separating the people who do the breastfeeding.

It's a feminist issue for all the reasons I pointed out in my post about women/work/convention centres upthread.

Briefly, to recap, when women voluntarily or under pressure make themselves or their issues invisible, nobody else sees them, cares about them, and nobody cares about their issues or feels any pressure to do anything about them either.

Who is talking about equality for children?

Did I mention that?

You might like to take a look at the concept of children's rights and the contribution of feminism and feminist thought to that, in case you've never run across the topic before.

Childfree spaces do nothing of the sort, because they exist in addition to all those spaces babies are welcome. It's simply an acknowledgement that some places are not appropriate places for young children, whether for safety reasons or simply because, heaven forbid, some adults want a place to go where they know young children or babies aren't going to be.

It is, in short, about choice and freedom of choice.

You are right that it is a feminist issue, but you are on the wrong side of the fence here and are actually arguing against the feminist position, but you just can't see that.

Meanwhile the OP, her husband, the baby and MIL are all back home getting on with their lives.

Bless you, Math C+ for effort

Ok then banning breastfeeding then.

Who is talking about equality for children?

You are !

Of course mothers and fathers should be able to take their babies and children everywhere.

'Child free' spaces are sidelining breastfeeding women because they do not admit the babies whom the breastfeeding women breastfeed

That's true, but those women are not being sidelined because they breastfeed.

They are being sidelined because they want their DC with them in order to feed them - just as a father who bottle feeds his baby is sidelined. There is no conspiracy against breastfeeding mothers, ALL parents who wish to feed their babies are equally "discriminated" against.

Of course babies should be allowed everywhere! Yesterday, me and DH had a lovely day out with our baby. We went to the funfair first. I was so proud of myself : I managed to feed the baby when we were on Europe's highest roller coaster....whilst it was doing a loop the loop! Feeling quite invigorated, we headed to the Cocktail Masterclass that DH had booked for my birthday. It was great.!Although, I have to admit, I got mightily pissed and I almost fell over, holding the baby. The baby was a bit annoying, cos it cried a lot and everyone was struggling to hear the Barman's instructions, but hey ho, that's what babies do. I don't think it ruined the experience for anyone else. And even if it did, well, I'm breastfeeding, what can you do? Next up we hit a few Clubs. I don't think the baby liked the noise, so I just hung around the smoking shelter having a few ciggies whilst feeding babba. That did get a bit cold and boring though, so I did go back in the Club for more drinks and a dance. When baby wanted another feed, I actually managed to latch her on, when I was on the dancefloor! It wasn't even hard. I even managed to drunk snog a random (DH at bar getting the shots in, so didn't see). Baby looks a bit peeky this morning, but Wednesday is pub day, and there's no way I'm missing that! I'm sure she'll be fine.

C+ redpeppersoup? You're very generous

Husky you get an A*!

...or simply because, heaven forbid, some adults want a place to go where they know young children or babies aren't going to be.

I am not arguing against the feminist position. Any 'feminist' position that disregards the fact that women lactate, and that lactating women are humans and have the right to go out to eat while lactating is an anti-feminist position.

^..but those women are not being sidelined because they breastfeed.
They are being sidelined because they want their DC with them in order to feed them^

NNChange, forcing a breastfeeding woman to choose between a dinner somewhere and breastfeeding her baby is sidelining those who choose to stay at home to breastfeed. Ergo, breastfeeding women are discriminated against by establishments that refuse to admit babies. No woman should have to choose.

Lots of breastfeeding babies refuse the bottle. It's not a case of 'wanting' the baby with you. Breastfeeding involves a woman and a baby. Even for those who might take a bottle, it is still discrimination because a woman has to go to extra lengths to pump, store, and find a babysitter willing to handle her milk and knowledgeable enough to do it properly. The breastfeeding woman and her baby are two sides of the same coin. Refusing to admit babies with their breastfeeding mothers means they have a high hurdle to get over before even thinking of an evening out.

That was incredibly funny, Husky. You should take your schtick on the road.

You posted that you are 'relieved' that I don't find the word 'breasts' offensive.

Why would I?

I am comfortable in my adulthood. I don't objectify or demean women; I am perfectly comfortable to use anoatomically correct terms rather than 'boobs' like you math. (I was also comfortable using my breasts to feed my children. And comfortable to enjoy adult only venues when I chose)

On second thoughts that's a rhetorical question. I can't bear seeing another of your long winded, illogical ramblings, and it's very clear that you only made a snarky comment implying that I might find the word offensive because you haven't got the resilience to cope with other people holding different views to your own narrow one

Glad you have no objection to breasts. Seems it's just the presence of babies that gets on your tits then, and using breasts to feed babies ruins your night out. What a pity for you.

Math this isn;'t all about the mother. The child has rights too. Many of the laws in place are there to make the country a safer place for children. Much of my working life has been in places totally unsuitable for babies or children, for their own protection. Is that anti feminist?

Would you be happy at a 3 year old being allowed into an 18 horror movie because they are being breastfed and their mother has the right to be in the cinema?

some women lactate

No, math SOME women lactate. You would do well to remember that. Then maybe you wouldn't go round being massively offensive to women who can't, women who chose not to, woman who can't conceive and therefore have no need to and deciding those who chose not to conceive want to 'live like men'.

Sorry the quote their was meant to be women lactate

No doubt math will pick up on that as another sign of stupidity.

Interesting to note that the criminal laws in Scotland which protect breastfeeding rights don't actually apply to women, they apply to the child and his/her rights.

This means that the child has the right to be fed milk in a public place, breastmilk or formula by a woman or a man.

But only in places where that child has the right to be. Just an interesting angle.

Ah I see you don't understand the meaning of rhetorical question math. Or perhaps you just couldn't resist banging on again.

At the risk of looking like I'm stooping to the pathetic snidey insults you're employing in the absence of reasoned argument- there's only one person here getting on everyone's tits.

(Awaiting your response with mild amusement because of course you can't help yourself )

The breastfeeding woman and her baby are two sides of the same coin. Refusing to admit babies with their breastfeeding mothers means they have a high hurdle to get over before even thinking of an evening out.

You really do have a low opinion of bottle-feeding, don't you?
All the same arguements apply to a bottle feeding dad; baby may refuse a bottle from anyone else, parent and baby are two sides of the same coin.

how old were your DCs when you stopped breastfeeding them, math?

"I am not arguing against the feminist position."

Yes you are. You are arguing that a minority of people (women who are actively breastfeeding) should have carte blanche approval to take their kids wherever they want, and screw whether it's a suitable environment and screw anyone else in that particular place.

The fact is, not everywhere is suitable for kids. Some places should be child-free and the fact that one restaurant out of 10 might say no kids does not stop you from going to one of those other 9 restaurants and everyone is happy.

It's really is astonishingly simple to understand.