To wonder if some people fit in nowhere and never really have any friends

[FriendlessFreakette]

Desperately lonely. My life is going well apart from that and having no money, but I am optimistic about a good career developing. Not optimistic at all about making friends. People just don't like me enough. I thought I had friends for a few years, but they have all faded away. I get that, people move on. I used to be good at keeping in touch but now I don't bother, because nobody wants to meet up with me anymore.

I think perhaps there is something really horrible wrong with me, I'm so ashamed. One of my oldest memories is other kids all running away from me, and the penny not dropping that they wanted to get away from me, and my mum shouting at me not to chase them because they didn't want me to play with them.

Are there just people with something subtle wrong with them, that's hard to put your finger on, that means you would never be their friend?

My final tip, perhaps an odd one, is to make friends with people of different ages to you. I think sometimes people fix on the idea of being in the big mummy group at school, and then get upset when they don't fit in or are ignored, this has definitely happened to me. Now I am friends with people of different ages, so a mum whose children have left home, and childfree friends too- they have more time than harassed mums with lots of children juggling work and home. I don't seek to fit into mum groups of which I'm clearly going to stick out like a sore thumb. I find the mum who is on the sidelines a bit who looks nice and chat to them instead. Older people who have led interesting lives are another great friendship source, my mum was divorced and has met lots of people through a social/hobby group- but again she's been going for probably 8 years, so the chance for longer-term friendships is there.

I don't have all the answers at all, but I have learned how to have friends, having had none (and being a bit 'different' than some of the school gate mums), so it may be of use to someone! It is a lot about opportunity though, not personality, I have more opportunities to connect with like-minded people than say if I was a SAHM.

Gym I totally see that, you want to keep the relationship with your niece. Unfortunately though your sister isn't facilitating that at all, and this may end up defining your relationship with your niece. I'm not saying cut her off, send presents at Christmas/birthdays, and definitely meet up a couple of times a year or offer to take your niece out, but I wouldn't ask beyond that, as it is hurting you to do so and get rejected. One of my relations dropped me recently and it was very hurtful. I don't think my children's relationship with them is more important than my own feelings though, so I've not kept pursing them.

Maybe you are right, it's being going on for over 18 months now, I see her and she's nice to my face, I feel like we've turned a corner, we are getting on so well
So I text to meet up, get an awful excuse, then feel depressed about it for the next week
Then I'll bump into her, she's nice to me and the whole cycle starts again

Building good social skills is the same whether the person is NT or has a ASD diagnosis. People with ASD are not that different to other people. The steps that can improve the social skills of an ASD person work on almost everyone. Temple Gradin's book is really interesting to read for anyone who struggles socially.

Gymboree567

I doubt that anything you have listed is affecting your ablity to make true friends. I must emphasise what I am saying may not apply to you. It's a set of general comments on things which sabotage friendships.

Friends come in all shapes, sizes and appearance. Often it's very subtle things that affect friendships. Ie.

People who dominate a conversation and have no interest in what the other person has to say or does not notice when that person is bored.

Failure to make the right level of eye contact can give the impression that you aren't interested in what the person is saying. The other person might interpret this as rudeness.

People are constantly negative about everything, constantly moaning or are very critical are tiresome to be with.

Sometimes people who do understand the subtleties of personal space. They will stand too close to the person they are talking to and make them feel comfortable.

Social skills is a really complex area. There is no shame is occasionally getting it wrong. I have a small circle of good friends which suits me better than lots of aquaintances. Not everyone needs a massive list of friends on Facebook.

There is a diffrerence between being alone and lonely. Some people are content with their own company.

The only thing that might apply to me is the eye contact thing
I never know when people are talking to me where to look, I don't want to stare them out, or keep looking away, it's so awkward!

You sound lovely and this resonates with me. Although I have a number of very close and wonderful friends, I always have a sense of being 'outside the crowd'. It has happened consistently enough (school, work, parents at DD's preschool etc) that I have sometimes wondered what it is about me that does this.

I've come to terms with this more by accepting that I am an introvert and that often people do not get the impression that I want to join in. I think I can seem aloof (when I really don't mean to be) and I know I am uncomfortable in large crowds of people, which can affect how much I share and interact with people.

I really doubt that there is anything horribly wrong with you, in fact without even knowing you I can promise there isn't :-)

We can internalise these voices from childhood, though, and our feelings that 'something is horribly wrong with me', that 'nobody likes me' and that 'other people don't want you to play with them' can form themselves into self-image and shape how we behave. If we behave as if nobody wants to play with us, we sometimes cut ourselves off from the possibility that they do.

Be kind to yourself. This has really made me feel that I could benefit from talking to a counsellor, actually, and so I might give you the same advice :-) and if you are in London and not weirded out by meeting somebody from the internet, I'd totally be up for meeting up :-)

There is a very painful condition known as social an anxiety. A person becomes phobic of mixing socially because of some really bad experiences. Having social anxiety does not necessarily mean the person has ASD. However social anxiety can stunt social development.

Maybe ask your GP for help with social anxiety. The charity Mind has a network across the country. They may offer courses in overcoming anxiety or depression. There maybe nothing wrong with your social skills, but mental illness is clouding your opinion of yourself.

Take care and be kind to yourself.

Thank you, all. There are some really interesting viewpoints on this thread.

I'm not depressed. If I was depressed, I wouldn't feel cheerful and excited by the rest of life in general. This is a very specific hurt. I probably am very anxious about it though, as times goes on.

It has really bewildered me that as the rest of my life got much better, that my friends dropped away. I cannot understand this.

I'm the kind of person that people talk to, and am always very interested in listening to friends news, either good or bad. But its like now I have good news of my own and stuff I'm excited by, they don't want to be around me. I have a slight feeling maybe I was a good ego boost to some of these people.

I'm conscious of personal space, and eye contact, and I "know" how to do social interaction. For example in work situations im very polished. So it isn't that that is the problem. It's more my personality seems off putting now to my old friends, and I'm devastated because i think I was an acquired taste to begin with, so I think I will struggle to make more.

Thank you all for your replies. I'm so sorry to hear the stories of other people who feel similar to me. Although it does mean I'm not on my own.

Yes there may be something different about you, but there is definitey nothing wrong with you friendless freakette Every one of us is human but flawed.

One tip is- chat about the other person avoid talking about yourself much. Everyone loves to talk about themselves, and appreciates your interest.

Beyond that keep being you, and like others have said be kind to yourself

Friendless Freakete I get where you are coming from
Even recently a friend I thought was a good friend texted "Really want to catch up but life keeps getting in the way" I then replied "blah bah blah have fun and let me know when you want to catch up" ...and have not heard since Makes you wonder why do some of keep investing our time in the wrong people Am definitely flawed in this area too

I know that feeling of being the one who always rings but never gets rung.
I also have lived in a place for 4 years, took part in volunteering and made a grand total of 0 friends. Mind you, I was living in Bedfordshire at the time.
It doesn't help that most of my hobbies are solitary too so I tend to rely on my Dhs friends most of the time. I still have a handful of friends but they are rather far flung and don't see them much.
I do wonder if I give up some sort of weirdness radiation which makes other people behave weirdly as I don't think I'm THAT strange.

Friendless it seems more that you are hurt by the actions of a particular group of friends to your new found better life, but I don't see why this would stop you making friends in the future. Unfortunately some friendship groups only work as long as everyone is fairly similar and all agree, and if someone breaks ranks, they can end up on the outside. Are there any of your old friends you'd still like to be in touch with? Perhaps one that you got on better with? If so, I might give them another chance (are you sure they all just dropped you or did life get in the way and you all went in different directions). I would avoid groups in the future and concentrate on making one or two really good friends, at least, that's worked better for me, I'm not good with groups. It is hard, though.

I don't know if anyone else is like me. I am a warm and friendly person who a lot of people like. But I don't enjoy the company of most of the people who like me! I only feel truly comfortable with two people.

user that is exactly how i'm turning! I'm amazingly good at being charming and can chat to anyone and everyone for as long as you like. Shops, hospitals, on holiday - there'll always be someone i end up gossiping with like a long lost best mate. Inside, however, i feel very torn wand wary about making friends. One part of me wants to think i have lots of friends like i used to, but when push comes to shove i know i'm an antisocial moo these days. I've got used to being friendless and feel like it's all i deserve i guess.

Two old friendships limp along because we're all as bad as each other at doing the running. New friendships just never happen.

Would you have the courage to start a thread here or in Chat asking for any local MNs to have a meet up? I've seen it work before.

Yes but I think it's important to be honest from the outset about why you are wanting to meet. Admit to being lonely and a bit different and ask to meet MNers in your area who feel just like you do. Otherwise the same thing as always will probably happen and while people may tolerate you and be polite in a large group, inevitably they will gravitate towards the people they feel most at ease with and the shy or quirky or Aspie among you will get left behind again.

If you have come to the conclusion that you are a square peg then the best thing is to stop chasing round pegs and continually questioning why it doesn't work, and start seeking out other square pegs.

Friendless, i would leave your old friends in the past for now. I known a person who is generally ok but really gets into her stride when discussing her woes or those of others. Happy stuff never gets her going the same way, she's a bit of a pessimist; whenever people suggest a solution she's quick to bat it away. Maybe you old pals are of that ilk. As for being socially adept, maybe you need to give off a few more "let's take this further" signals? If you know people you'd like to be friends with, suggest doing something together? Someone has to make the first move. If you seem very happy and upbeat maybe people assume your social life is fine.

Reading this I am beginning to think we are not alone..

Except in some ways we are alone..

Like so many above I don't fit in well in groups, especially large gatherings. I have never managed to learn normal social behaviour.. It does make me feel like an outsider.. but I am generally happy with life.

I could have wrote that OP. I never fitted in even with family. I was a teenager when I realised I was different. I was very nervous/awkward around people and had knack of making people dislike me.

30 years later after an adulthood blighted by anxiety and depression, I was diagnosed with Aspergers.

I actually think ''All the lonely people'' from the Beatles song that many are aspies.

Having a diagnosis I thought would make things easier but it hasn't proven so.

One brother on hearing of my diagnosis whispered ''You should't go round telling people that your mentally ill'' I said ''I'm not mentally ill, I have a neurological condition'' That brother works as a mental health nurse :(

Another conversation with another brother and brother in law basically minimised my condition, telling me I shouldn't let it define me.
I actually don't let it define me, I work full time in a professional role, own my own place, am a mum and stepmum etc
But being autistic is part of who I am. I cannot get rid of it, I will always struggle with this additional burden.
I said to my brother and BIL that if I was gay would they tell me not to define myself as gay??
That encounter made me want to get back in my autistic closet and not come out.
I have a reason for my difficulties and oddities but I'm not allowed that reason.
I now feel it's best not to talk about it.

A good thing that has come out of the diagnosis is finding other aspie women on FBook.
If anyone thinks they may have AS look for british women with aspergers on FB. The groups about 800 strong i think. :)
Oh and they do meet ups too. Stimming and other different behaviours welcome

Best Wishes OP you are not alone.

I don't want my niece growing up think I didn't care about her, or I never tried to see her, I keep all the messages

I know you mean well but this made me feel very anxious because my aunt has repeatedly tried to 'persuade' me that it's my mum's fault we're not all close - it didn't make me feel loved by my aunt, it made me feel upset and defensive of my mum (who I adore).

I can identify with this OP. Not sure if I' m on the spectrum myself, but I am aware that due to growing up with moderate hearing impairment I have some quirks I can do very little about. I have a somewhat pedantic mode of speech and use a bigger vocabulary than most people are used to. And I have intense eye contact because I have to see what people are saying. In some situations this is an advantage - they love it in interviews and presentations - but in most everyday social situations like the school gate, I think it puts people off.

I have come to the conclusion that the only people who can make friends in school gate/baby group/child-centred situations are the ones who don't need them. When you have children I think so much of your emotional energy goes into them that you lose the ability to form friendships. It's like your DCs are massive trees and nothing much can grow around them; you have to rely on the support you already have.

Oh, and I second the PP who said real friendships take years to develop. They are also often with the most unlikely people.

We got "Paddington" the movie on dvd last night. There was (is) a lovely line at the end... Paddington says:-

"I'll never be like eveyone else because I'm a bear.."

Not " I'm just a bear".. he is what he is .. and seems quite happy with it. I take great comfort from knowing myself better than I did, But I do know I will never be like everyone else.

I can relate to much of that. I have a handful of lovely friends who are quite like me. They took a while to.find. I have SA and GAD and I suspect AD. I can get on very well with people but it's exhausting and things confuse me. I have found people can seek out my 'type' to feel better about themselves and as we can be passive/good listeners and they can't tolerate competition/confidence.

Exactly the same OP.

I'm a friendly person and I have distant friends but nobody who would put me on their top 5 list.

Sounds like me. I think I look very grumpy.

My DS is on the spectrum as well and makes me wonder if I am undiagnosed although I didn't have this problem before uni. People are always apologising to me when doing very ordinary, non-offensive things - even though I am not feeling crabby at all I must look stern and disapproving.