So prisoners and people on benefits should pick fruits on farms now?

[Valentine2]

This is a link to The Sun. I am beyond angry. They suggest we use these two sections of our society to pick farms "to give back"!! WTAF! I am posting here deliberately and not anywhere else so get maximum traffic so maximum number of people could see where it's going.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1985706/theresa-may-needs-to-remoaners-who-wont-accept-brexit-verdict-back-in-their-box/

Yep pick it and leggit

I don't see what's wrong with either of those scenarios - prisoners should be made to work, and people on benefits, if able-bodied and long-term unemployed/unemployable then why not? I believe that to received unemployment benefit you have to sign saying that you are willing to do any suitable job. Pay minimum wage and reduce benefits accordingly, and it's a net gain for the taxpayer. Unfortunately as PPs have said, the benefit system as it is would struggle to cope with these changes.

People having a real, properly-paid job picking fruit instead of being on benefits - fine.
People being forced to pick fruit in return for receiving benefits - horribly exploitative.

Unfortunately, the bureaucratic system is set up to discourage the former.

Good idea. Would you rather be in a cell or picking fruit?

In Sweden this kind of work is called 'practice' work and it's expected of benefit receivers to step up to the plate. They are not paid a wage, however they see getting benefits as payment. It's more or less reserved for those who have been on benefits for years, but it can be requested.

I'm back on benefits again after finishing my summer job, and I'd be throwing myself at fruit picking jobs if there were any round here. We have a lot of fruit farms, but just like the 'pick your own' in the UK most fruit farms here sell direct from the bush/tree or mechanically harvest and are typically a small section of a much larger grain farm.

Interestingly, however, a plot of land right beside my apartment is being dug up by the council. They will plant a lot of fruit trees and bushes purposely for keeping everybody in free fruit all year round. Fruit is also given out at workplaces for free. (Sweden)

If people are doing a job they should be paid wages. If people are on JSA and are forced to work, they should be paid for that work at the standard going rate, not just receive their measly benefits for doing so.

I don't agree with forced prisoner labour. We no longer sentence people to labour, for very good reasons. And allowing employers to use forced free labour rather than employ and pay people is an astoundingly stupid idea economically.

I've done shit manual jobs. I grew up in the Fens, I've picked fruit, worked in food factories, hefted heavy shit for hours in giant fridges. Nothing wrong with that work per se, but no one should be forced into it without proper pay.

Probably not getting the outrage you wanted OP. What is wrong with fruit picking? As others have said we expect East Europeans to do the work - why won't Brits do the work? If you are getting something in the region as a family £1800-£2000 per month by the time you have had housing benefit/council tax/free school meals/free school trips/bills paid/living money for food etc... Say for example you were asked to work 16 hrs per week that would work out at £31.25 an hour. And that's after tax. You would have to be in a fairly high level job to earn that much per hour - think lawyer/banker/headteacher. Why shouldn't people receiving state help contribute something? Clearly people that are disabled/single Mums with 4 kids to sort out shouldn't be expected to do that. But why shouldn't young healthy men and women do something constructive??

As someone who has worked in a Jobcentre for more than 20 years I can honestly say that I have not yet been able to persuade any of our claimants to talk a job fruit picking.

take

Sorry but YABU. This is what you get for reading The Sun.

Nothing wrong with it as such - job vacancies will be created that need to be filled. I, however wouldn't be able to do it - as a pp said it's hard physical work and I couldn't do that with my knees.

They are taking from us the tax payer is prison free is the cps that had to prostute them free is the court free is the police that nicked them free

So picking fruit is the lest of it

And choosing to work or not as it may be is many peoples issue with this ruddy country

Nothing that demeaning in fruit picking, DH did it whilst a student (grew up in rural area).

Surely it's far more demeaning to just accept hand outs from the benefits system?

The problem with getting unwilling people to pick fruit or vegetables is that they probably won't do it efficiently/carefully, which will mean less productivity and therefore higher food prices. If people are young, fit and able to work, then of course they should do so - the problem is determining who is fit and able - and administering the whole thing. If it could be arranged satisfactorily, we would possibly see a whole host of health benefits from people leading a more active life (though the initial bad backs might outweigh this). However, having worked as a volunteer, packing clothing parcels for those in need, with a load of young offenders - the volunteers achieved ten times the amount of work

Our local soft fruit farm is large and supplies supermarkets. They pay the minimum wage plus bonuses. Most of the workers are from outwith the UK, they come every year and stay in caravans onsite for a fee. Some of my friend's children (teens/students) have given it a go over the last few years.
To earn a bonus you must pick a huge amount of undamaged fruit.
To keep your job you must be able to pick a very large amount of undamaged fruit within a week of starting or they let you go as the profit margins, based on what the supermarkets pay, is too low to have any slower or 'trainee' pickers. When the experienced pickers aren't able to come over from Europe, I really don't see how the supermarket soft fruit won't go up in price.

Nobody can get JSA without applying for jobs, that is why we have sanctions.

YABU for reading The Sun

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

portia but if people are applying for jobs that they actually want to do then they could still take on say 15-20 hrs p/w doing something towards the benefits they are receiving? If I want to apply for another job I have to do it late into the evening after my other work is done. Yes I realize I am lucky to have a job - but surely to idea of people contributing to what they are receiving isn't a bad thing? I really don't think doing job applications takes up 35 hrs p/w.

I just found time to check.thansk for so many replies.
I know it's definitely not on to read that rag but I did this sin last night as couldn't resist. I have gone through comments and learnt quite a few things.

1. There is a general consensus that people on long term unemployment benefits should do this seasonal job.i agree with that. But who will make this system work? That's not what the sun said anyway.their implication is general and vile.
2. Picking fruits on farms is good enough for seasonal workers and young students during holidays and that's all nice and good but using prisoners to do it (again the implication is that it should be done,not given as an option) is abhorrent. People who do this job right now should be given good working conditions essentially rather than actually going to fish/sort from prisoners or benefits receivers.
3. The government that didn't even plan the morning after Brexit is going to devise a system where it's prisoners are kept under security ? Who will pay for that security? My taxes or the farm?
4. And whatever happened to the "British jobs for British people" thing? Why won't the British ripple do this job?

I actually agree with people having to do work in exchange for benefits, provided they are not ill/disabled etc.

Well, it's the prevailing system in places like North Korea, so I can see why you think it's attractive.

The issue is the benefits system can not cope with people doing temporary work. Reforming this one aspect would make a big difference. Temporary jobs also often lead to permanent ones.

valentine it probably isn't an attractive job prospect a it's hard work and for not much more than you'd get not working. The ideal would be for it to pay better and then people would be more likely to consider it. I think the East Europeans that come over live in digs loads of them in one house. The answer if probably for the price of fruit to go up & pay people a proper salary to do the work. But then we would probably just import the produce - so not sure it would be the answer.

www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/overview

converse
Great point! I am angry at how an idea coined by the likes of scummy Farage and Co finally did manage I get backing after over a decade.hiw they have managed to convince a large proportion of British public as to why immigration is the ultimate evil. I am scared that the idea getting thrown in by Sun right now might get some sort of acceptance in some sections of society without thinking over the implications.just like Brexit itself.

I disagree. The worst thing ever done was the refusal to budge on the issue of reasonable wriggle room to fire distinctly under performing employees on permanent contract. If there had been a softening of the hardline position 20 odd years ago, I don't think we'd have seen the legislation that allowed to rise of the temp. contract, or the extent to which risk averse employers tend to avoid perm. contracts like the plague.

So true.