So prisoners and people on benefits should pick fruits on farms now?

[Valentine2]

This is a link to The Sun. I am beyond angry. They suggest we use these two sections of our society to pick farms "to give back"!! WTAF! I am posting here deliberately and not anywhere else so get maximum traffic so maximum number of people could see where it's going.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1985706/theresa-may-needs-to-remoaners-who-wont-accept-brexit-verdict-back-in-their-box/

iPost

The voucher system is the worst thing ever done seeing as it's being abused to the max.

And the benefits system is italy is shit almost non existent I don't even get maternity pay Ffs

In Scotland the break in October used to be tatty- picking week. Primary and secondary school kids and their families would go out in the fields and pick the tatties. back breaiking work. But cash in hand, money towards Xmas pressies.

Problem now is if you got paid for picking tatties or anything else you'd lose your benefits, need to pay tax on the earnings if you already had a job and it would be a big faff.

I guess that foreign workers /students don't have this faff. They come here, get bed and board, cash in their pockets and go home (either someone else pays their contributions or they don't earn enough to pay tax, something like that). If they made it that easy for Brits they would be much more likely to do it.

IPost is right, the problem lies with the delays built into the benefit system which mean that anyone who is living from paypacket to paypacket and relies on benefits to be able to pay the essential bills cannot possibly take seasonal work or anything with an unpredictable income because the knock on effects of going on and off benefits will screw up their family budget for months. Delays in benefits due to this sort of change in income is one of the major reasons why people go to food banks. It's one of the best arguments for a Citizen's Income IMO (there are other good arguments against it, but it would have huge advantages).

They suggest we use these two sections of our society to pick farms "to give back"!! WTAF!

No idea why you are so angry. If you've got no job and there is one going as a fruit picker, why not take it? I've had to do shit jobs at times when I was out of work, its just what you have to do.

I see nothing wrong with voluntary work too, it's good for many reasons.

There are far too many on benefits that simply won't get a job because they get a decent lifestyle on benefits for doing nothing. If they had to do voluntary work to get those benefits maybe they simply find actual work instead.

Prisinors have always been able to do work experience so no different for them.

Prisoners do work already. As long as they are paid the minimum wage, minus food and transport then it seems reasonable to allow them to do it.

I suspect the OP has seen too many USA chain gang films.

The problem with the benefits proposal is that it's another Workfare - there doesn't seem to be any suggestion that fruit pickers would be paid anything over and above benefits. So you would get people diverted away from work experience in the field they wanted to go into, whilst farm businesses get free labour paid for by the taxpayer. It makes no sense.

Amalfimamma

I certainly got maternity pay, much better than in the UK, 5 months at 80% salary plus another 6 months at 30%. The benefits system in Italy is based on the fact you've had a job and is time limited, if you've never worked it's assumed you have family to support you. There are payments you can apply for if you have a low wage, but sometimes the criteria for eligibility are bizarre.

The voucher system is generally used for paying cleaners, carers, childcare. Sometimes it's used for paying students to work in restaurants, which is not good as they should be paid more. However the alternative is cash in hand, at least this way they get some contributions paid.

The voucher system is the worst thing ever done seeing as it's being abused to the max.

I disagree. The worst thing ever done was the refusal to budge on the issue of reasonable wriggle room to fire distinctly under performing employees on permanent contract. If there had been a softening of the hardline position 20 odd years ago, I don't think we'd have seen the legislation that allowed to rise of the temp. contract, or the extent to which risk averse employers tend to avoid perm. contracts like the plague.

And of course the voucher system is abused. Abuse is not an aberration of the system here, it IS the system here.

However slotted, as is, into the British benefit's system, it would get people over the hump of being able to take on seasonal work without risking their benefits and leaving them open to a plunge into deeper poverty and homelessness.

I didn't get maternity pay either. I'm freelance. The only people I know who got maternity pay were on the contract you need in order to qualify and fulfilled all the necessary conditions to trigger it paying out.

Nobody ever moved here for the generous benefits system.

I can't see why anyone on benefits would bother - why not just go and do the job without the benefits system in the way.

Quite a few benefit claiments where I live disappear during the fruit picking and tattie seasons anyway, just coming back for signing-on day.

I read somewhere there were plans to replace European pickers with people from SE Asia. That'll show those Remoaners.

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What makes people on benefits better than immigrants? Should we not be more concerned with improving work conditions rather than funding people who can put up with them?

You misunderstand me. I don't think anyone should be exploited. I'm pointing out that these jobs are terrible full stop, so by putting people on benefits into these jobs, the government is implying that this is what people should put up with. I have no tolerance for exploitation of any kind.

Bollocks Believeitornot - these jobs are not "terrible full stop".

I actually agree with people having to do work in exchange for benefits, provided they are not ill/disabled etc.

As a child we spent all our summers at 'the berries' and there were plenty adults there too. Nothing wrong with berry picking. We also did tattie week (not great fun then but these days its all done by machine and you sit down to sort out the tatties/other veg )

I know someone who runs a farm and has to employ foriegn workers to do the work at harvest time as nobody would do it from UK. They are paid well and have good conditions. They work hard, they had to be reminded that they had to have breaks and stop at a certain time! Why on earth would someone pass up on a job then complain that there are no jobs and they have to stay on benefits?

I am not saying compulsory slave labour here, just everyday work which is available yet nobody wants to do it as they think its beneath them. Why should you sit on your arse and claim benefits while there are jobs available, if you are fit and healthy enough to do it? Seasonal work should be available without it taking weeks to sort out your benefits once its over. The system is useless, it needs updating to be more efficient and fluid. It doesnt encourage anyone to take a job that they think is beneath them when they can get more on benefits.

Disclaimer I am not anti benefits just the system thats in place at the moment. People should be able to work and get top ups if they need them (as many do just now) but finances shouldn't stop people who actually want to work from taking a job.

Yes they are - because they pay really low wages, long hours and are exploitative.

If they paid better with better conditions then I'd not say that.

user I don't think that is legal any more, fruit pickers have to be paid minimum wage or more.

Look up workfare

People on benefits are not in the same category as prisoners. It has been implied that this is the case. That's that is so wrong with this.

More students should be encouraged to pick fruit/veg. I picked fruit as a teenager and so did my parents and DH's family. I bought my first car with the money I made fruit picking. It was an old battered and very cheap car but still it was a car.

I thought leavers wanted British jobs for British people.

A clear case of be careful what you wish for.

I'd love to know how the Sun thinks the security aspect would work with 100 prisoners scattered over a 25 acre field.

Seasonal fruit pickers are paid minimum wage, living wage or in accordance with pay set out by the agricultural wages board, depending on their age or working location. Often bonuses on top for the best workers. They are paid in exactly the same way as British workers would be and pay tax and NI if earning enough. They receive subsidised accommodation and sometimes other benefits (for example, free transport to nearest town for shopping/leisure, additional training and language courses). Nobody is exploited. There are numerous measures in place to prevent this. Most pickers want long hours so they can earn more money! It is not the most glamorous of jobs but those prepared to put in the work can earn very good money, much better than some other jobs like bar, cleaning or hotel work.