To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

*Fluffy - if you don't want to share your views and opinions this is a pretty odd place to be.
I voted remain, I won't change my mind but I would very much like to understand why we are where we are. If someone could give me some tangible well thought out reason I might be less depressed by the whole issue.

I lurk on these threads hoping for some clarity and some insight. Unfortunately most Brexiters seem to exist (not all of you) on rhetoric*

There you go...... I won't change my mind either. Explain "rhetoric" and then maybe you will get some answers. If in your mind "rhetoric" means all Brexiters voted to get out of the EU because they are ALL racist. Save your breath. This seems to be the stance of all Remoaners. Because there is nothing else to Brexit than closing our borders eh?

Just every broadsheet paper yesterday quoting statements by the banks industry representatives.

fluffy independent for one, can find you more if you can hang about for a bit.

Fluffy rhetoric = language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect, but which is often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.

"If in your mind "rhetoric" means all Brexiters voted to get out of the EU because they are ALL racist. Save your breath. This seems to be the stance of all Remoaners. Because there is nothing else to Brexit than closing our borders eh"

I have said nothing about racism. Please tell me about all the good reasons you voted to leave. The jobs, the economy, the positive benefits for workers in the UK?

No.

fluffy
Reuters
CNBC
and even The Sun
BBC
and concerns about mortgage lending

I have said nothing about racism. Please tell me about all the good reasons you voted to leave. The jobs, the economy, the positive benefits for workers in the UK

What exactly is the point? Nobody knows what the economy or positive benefits for workers are in the UK at present. That includes all the remoaners. Give it a rest. There is nothing we can do about whether we have a hard or soft Brexit. Whether you like it or not we will have to leave that decision to our party in power. I can't see Teresa May being browbeaten tbh I am just glad we are getting out of the dictatorship that we have been living under all these years... As an aside did you vote for UK to be part of the EU?

I'm beginning to notice the pattern here with some leavers that do attempt to come up with reasons. They're asked to come up with factual bases to their arguments they rarely have anything, but demand 'believable' evidence themselves back where they're asked to engage/counter things. Though I use 'believable' purposely there, because I suspect a lot of stuff isn't believable to some without soundbites. And then they go off on one about how all remainers think they're all just racist as a defence mechanism because its far easier to tarnish someone with a brush than it is to counter a feeling over actual data.

I don't think remainers will ever understand this, because a lot comes from emotions that have been generated from decades of our governments pedalling bullcrap to hide their own inadequacy. You can't explain a intolerant feeling, whether its straight forward racism or the feeling that you're being governed by lizard overlords. I genuinely honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't fact check a claim on the side of a bus but there are literally thousands of people out there who didn't because it said what they wanted to hear.

Not that I'm saying don't ask, because if we don't question we don't learn!

No, not at all.

It has made me understand an awful lot more about class divides and attitudes in England than I used to, though. I thought all those little Englander stereotypes were just that: stereotypes.

Boy, did I get that one wrong.

There is nothing we can do ... Whether you like it or not we will have to leave that decision to our party in power.

and

I am just glad we are getting out of the dictatorship that we have been living under all these years.

Is it just me or is this sort of, well, mutually contradictory? We're all powerless to influence the outcome, and must throw ourselves trustingly at the mercy of whoever is in government (with a PM whom none of us expected at the time we voted) who will somehow implement some completely unknown flavour of Brexit at some not quite clear point in the future, and which our parliament is not to scrutinise. Additionally, nobody is to criticise or dissent, because this would make them traitors who ought to be exiled or imprisoned. But all this is somehow "taking back control" from a so-called dictatorship?

Dictatorship! Lol. I think we need a lot more basic dictionary work in our primary schools to avoid this kind of misuse of our English language.

The bandying about of nonsense vocabulary really gets on my tits because it shows a complete lack of education in your own language.

You have no idea what a dictatorship actually is, Pineapple. Let me help you:

Dictatorship - noun

1. A country, government, or the form of government in which absolute power is exercised by a dictator.

1. Absolute, imperious, or overbearing power or control.

3.The office or position held by a dictator.

None of which applies to the EU or any country in the EU. If you believe it is, then please do show me factual and not made up examples.

Otherwise, don't talk bollocks.

elements
Exactly! I can't understand this either. How are these two things equivalent? So we vote Leave to show the middle finger to Cameron and god knows who else in the hope that it will hurt/shock them and once they are hurt/shocked enough,they will suddenly become the saviours of us who showed them the middle finger in the first place. The mind boggles

Actually, rather famously Quentin Hogg referred to our parliamentary system as an 'elective dictatorship'. Mid 70s I think so after we joined the EU.

It's us not the EU that has authoritarian issues it's us!

Firstly My username refers to an ex-dog of ours not the dipshit that got us into this mess.

I'm a No.
I voted remain.
I work in the NHS. It's currently completely unsafe due to the low staffing levels. We can no longer recruit anyone. Theatre staff are all agency staff so you can turn up in theatre for an operation and no-one in that theatre will have ever worked in the hospital before. That's really safe if you need something in a hurry. We can't recruit consultants or middle grade doctors. My dept recently advertised a consultant job and there were ZERO applicants - same for the middle grade. Waiting times (including cancers) are going up, there is a massive backlog of follow ups that can't be seen.
I work in the South of England, but this is a universal problem.
I can't work out if this is Jeremy (difficult to pronounce surname)'s fault or a Brexit effect or (most likely) a combination of both.

Be afraid - very afraid.
The Brain Drain has started.

smallfox You are lying and you know it. The treasury doc says:

The Prime Minister secured agreement with his European counterparts at the March European Council to welcome the intention of the Commission to enable increased flexibility for member states with respect to zero and reduced rates of VAT

This is linked to the paper on a single EU VAT system.

Basically, as you well know, we can reduce VAT on sanitary products if and when all EU members agree to a single VAT system with aligned rates and exemptions. The UK govt has no power to enact this inside the EU.

This is a very minor point, but telling that the Remainers refuse to accept they are wrong.

My key point, for the umpteenth time, is control over UK tax rates and mix of direct and indirect tax.

Don't worry Boris a Brexiter will pop by and call you a Remoaner in a minute. Shall we have some tea while we wait?

Awww.... go on then!
Actually better make it wine! While we can still afford it!

But elements - It's our dictatorship, we've taken back control of the dictatorship. British dictatorship is so much better than EU dictatorship you know

The EU has become a 'benign' dictatorship because it does feel like it is excercise overbearing control without accountability.

People in the UK do not feel they have any say over the laws that it passes or money it spends, it feels very corrupt eg its accounts are never audited.

To contrast the UK government, anecdotally most people do feel that the government is held to account (JC aside) and that they can be throw out of power ever 5 years by the will of the people.

Quornflakes, we, just like every country in the EU, had the right to veto.

Wonder how many laws we will change just so we can call them "British".

It's all so lame.

Leavers like fluffy are a curious bunch aren't they?

Why would you post on a thread ranting that Remainers NEVER understand other people's reasoning then go on to say

nobody knows what the economy or positive benefit for workers are in the UK at present

Aside from that sentance not making much sense the general gist is we haven't got a fucking clue what will happen.

When you follow up by saying you're glad to be out of the EU dictarship in the same breath as saying we just need to leave our unelected PM to get on with it, the mind really boggles.

Can you really not see why Remainers don't understand your reasoning?

Does it not occur to you that the fact you haven't actually given any reasons might just be the problem?

Are you not in the least bit worried that nothing you've said makes any sense and you freely admit you've no idea what your vote is going to lead to?

"do not feel they have any say over the laws"

That is the issue. It's how people feel. It can be explained decisions are made by the Council of Ministers etc, details of the decision making process can be explained in detasil but people feel they have no power.

You can put forward as many well reasoned arguments as you like but people didn't like how it feels.

We also, like every other country in the EU, had the right to elect our representatives to it and could have, if we'd been bothered, kicked them out regularly too.

We also, like every other country in the EU, had the right to elect our representatives to it and could have, if we'd been bothered, kicked them out regularly too.

But people hate the EU so much so, that they can't even be arsed to go to the polling station to vote for their MEP. I wonder just who they will blame when we are not in the EU?

"The EU has become a 'benign' dictatorship because it does feel like it is excercise overbearing control without accountability. "

Yet its not a dictatorship and it is accountable, to the council of ministers and to MEPs, who despite all of leave's ranting can ammend laws. So unaccountable that one area in Belgium is currently blocking a big trade deal. More post truth appeals to emotion there, utter bollocks.

"People in the UK do not feel they have any say over the laws that it passes or money it spends, it feels very corrupt eg its accounts are never audited."

Yet we have MEPs that sit on bodies that rule on how money is spent, and the money spent here is applied for and administrated by governments both local and national as well as business?

More bollocks

Your profound misunderstandings demonstrate ignorance, yet you feel the need to comment. J'accuse Brexhshiteer.