To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

X post but my point still stands- if you had any other reason than racist prejudice you'd be citing it.

Why would anyone want to align themselves with the racist, bigoted element of the Leave vote if they actually had other reasons?

No, all it proves is that I don't want an argument with an online stranger.

The problem is with you thinking an anonymous member of a parenting website has the answer to all your worries.

I think this is an example of one of the "brilliant minds" behind Brexit.
Why else would anyone vote to spiral our country into almost certain economic, social, and political decline?

"I don't want an argument with an online stranger. "

So you are on this board because..............

Magik Not sure what you mean by a free market economic route, or the relevance of the NHS.
I do believe we have too many regulations which are set for big business with no flexibility for SME's, I also believe strongly that many regulations are the wrong ones. Take the banking crisis, there were many useless regulations, yet little/no punishment for those who were taking the piss.

No, my problem is that I'd rather hoped everyone who voted did it because they'd weigh up the pros and cons and made their choice based on that.

Given that we are now where we are, I now hope people will look at the actual facts of the situation and realise what an almighty fuck up it is and push for the least damaging option.

When someone like you acknowledges you don't give a shit about the economy, can't articulate why you want to further control immigration, can't state any negatives of being in the EU and just waves your flag because we're leaving my heart truly sinks.

Bearbehind
Seriously, how long have you been asking these same questions to pretty much the same people over & over again - 4 months?
In those 4 months there have been 100's of posts from leavers giving you their reasons for voting leave. Nothing changes. Because the only answer you want from us is; 'oh no I've made a terrible mistake, wish I'd voted remain' - Have you got nothing better to do? give up fgs.

Nope. I think there have been no rational answers yet for voting Leave.

carol from your posts you appear to be advocating uk economic survival based on non eu countries who prosper outside it, plus a reduction in regulations so I assumed you had looked into the pro brexit economics models, which are all free market based and supported us turning our fiscal policies that way.

This means the NHS is highly relevant because it can't continue as state funded and controlled for us to proceed as a free market economy, at least not in its current form of free at entry covering all illnesses.

"Our new research, recently published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, examined a slippery way by which people get away from facts that contradict their beliefs. Of course, sometimes people just dispute the validity of specific facts. But we find that people sometimes go one step further and, as in the opening example, they reframe an issue in untestable ways. This makes potential important facts and science ultimately irrelevant to the issue."

From The Scientific American.

We live in a post truth world where presenting people with facts confirms their orgional opinions.

Your 'facts' are irrelevant, their minds are made up. Democracy anyone?

surfer I will go on asking until someone proves to me that leaving is going to put the UK in a better place than we were before.

There haven't actually been hundreds of posts giving reasons because they mainly fall into the following categories-

• I could answer but I can't be bothered
• I can't answer because
• I voted to take back control/ regain sovereignity / any other random rhetoric
• I'm essentially racist and don't want foreigners here

I actually think there is an element of leave voters who do think they've made a mistake because of how things are turning out but accept they're not going to be rushing to say this.

If you don't think you made the wrong choice then I'd expect you could tell us why but you will never do so as your actual reason for your vote is so narrow minded you can't see beyond that.

It's you that keeps on saying youre sick of these arguments, yet you keep coming back to stir the pot and say fuck all again. If you don't like it hide the thread and don't post on it.

If you don't like it hide the thread and don't post on it

Consider it done

"Population EU: 510 million now - once minus UK then 445 million

Population Canada: 35 million
Population Australia: 23 million
Population NZ: 4 million"

That's 445 million Johnny Foreigners though, whereas there might not be as many people in Canada/Australia/NZ but they are basically just British people with funny accents (they even have the same royalty as us!) and therefore clearly more decent and trustworthy than any Frog or Kraut.

I haven't seen 100s of posts from leavers giving reasons for voting leave. I have seen 100s of posts claiming that they are being bullied when they are asked in any detail about their vote.

This must be a great and exciting weekend for leavers as we get confirmation that banks will be leaving. I expect most are walking on air at how they got back control - aka destroyed the uks financial sector.

You're quite right birdy. Those hundreds of posts actually boil down to a handful that say they did it so we could control tax/ laws/ immigration.

The problem for me is that none of those ever seem to see the full picture and acknowledge that by increasing controls in those areas we'll lose control in other areas, predominantly trade.

In every instance I've seen quoted the perceived benefit of not being bound by a few EU laws or taxes is massively outweighed by what we'll lose.

In fact, in most instances I've seen given as reasons, EU laws or taxes are actually another example of rhetoric because, when you ask for specifics on what you'd want to change, there are few, if any tangible examples that would make any kind of difference to us.

It always ends up back at my point about the benefits never outweighing the losses. Since the losses are mounting up and there are still no benefits coming out of the woodwork it's all looking exteremly dire.

Magik I will not derail with discussion on the NHS except to say that our current system, which has many flaws, is actually one of the most efficient in the world, so not sure why it can't continue to exist.
Bear You think you can see the future but you have no idea what will actually happen. You feel scared because of change and are ranting because you have no control over it. I understand your pain and confusion.

carol please don't patronise me.

We do have quite a good idea of what is going to happen and it's not looking good. Just an example - Have you seen the stories today about banks making provisions to move done departments out of the UK?

I'd far rather look at the facts and make a judgement on those that live in la-la land where you say pointless things like 'many countries prosper outside the EU' with absolutely nothing to back that up.

carol, feel free to discuss the NHS, it's not derailing, it's very relevant.

Is it still scare-mongering when it actually starts to happen? Companies and individuals are certainly assessing whether to leave the UK, taking their opportunities and jobs with them.

www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/northern-trust-may-move-eu-subsidiary-to-ireland-over-brexit-1.2836742

www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/smiffys-to-move-hq-to-the-netherlands-amid-eu-fears

www.thebookseller.com/news/brexit-hit-firms-fear-talent-drain-416646

www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/brexit-triggers-second-academic-brain-drain/news-story/e7d1aaf828511f1d859f4f954c106c44

Not scare-mongering that's just remainers fault for not wishing hard enough.

Thanks bear
And thanks carol for confirming you haven't really looked into the economics required for brexit. If you had, you would realise precisely what going free market means.

I voted remain in the end but was wavering and uncertain. I felt that neither was a vote for the status quo and that whichever way the vote went would see huge changes for the UK. The things I worried about which made me contemplate voting leave were fears that a remain vote would be taken as a mandate for ever closer union and eventually move to joining the single currency. I was worried about a loss of sovereignty and the UK electorate having less and less say over our laws and things like defence policy and I worried that as the EU expanded other counties with weaker economises would join under conditions that also most cripple their economies and then need bailing out. In the end I decided to vote for remain because the consensus of expert opinion around the economic consequences seemed to be that we'd be better off remaining. I think things are very uncertain at the moment and it's an unsettling time and I think we just need to wait and see how it plays out, I wouldn't support further referendums on the details, I think we just have to leave our elected representatives to get on with it. I'm glad we have May rather than Gove, Johnson or Leadsom leading on this though as I feel she'll temper the approach somewhat. I'd rather remain had won out but it didn't and I think the democratic vote should be respected and we shouldn't assume that all leavers were too stupid to understand the issues as I don't think anyone could know what the long term consequences would be whichever way the vote went as none of us can know this with certainty.

Ah, I see.... so the economic argument for Brexit is that if we don't believe in fairies then Tinkerbell dies???

That was a joke response to Birdybirdy by the way and not to your measured and helpful message that came in in the interim ChubbyBubby.

allotment there are several viable economic models out the for brexit but unfortunately most people don't understand that whatever you get for a gain comes at a cost. Most economic arguments from leavers seem to be a belief we can have it all. We can't.