To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

I'd prefer paying VAT on tampons to Brexit, which is going to cost me hundreds if not thousands of pounds

I'd prefer paying VAT on tampons to Brexit, which is going to cost me hundreds if not thousands of pounds

^This

I suspect Brexit is going to cost us way more than an entire lifetime's worth of tampon VAT.

Note you all:

a) wrongly refute the existence of the issue
b) focus on how a very small part of a tiny issue is not worth it
c) completely ignore the EU control over our complete tax system

Even if you believe the EU controlling our tax system is right, you should be able to understand how some think it is wrong and a valid reason to vote out.

We're going to export tea apparently. Tea and jam, the post Brexit saviour of EngWalesland.

So it's all good now. Back in control. Fantastic.

Bollocks is this all about the tampon tax.

And who cares if the EU set VAT rates? Tell me how that affects you? More than your weekly shop doubling in price...

Lila

The EU setting VAT rates prohibit a UK government determining its own taxation, and hence spending and borrowing policy.
The EU rule on Ireland tax code being illegal is further concentration of powers that members are supposed to control.
If you want a harmonised EU tax code, that is fine. I don't.

OK, thank you for the explanation.

Of course we have loads more taxes in the U.K. That the EU don't have control over.

The uk govt can change the vat rate and has done so fairly regularly. Several times in the 22 years I've lived here, up and even down.

The EU has a say over goods that are vat exempt I believe - which was the problem with the tampon tax. The uk govt couldn't just take the 20% vat rate off sanpro when they finally conceded it was reprehensible for the govt to earn from menstruation. Despite this I think they did reduce the rate to 5%. Of course it should be zero.

I voted remain, and was horrified by the leave vote. Still am actually. Not sure what everyone thinks we will export, we don't have much manufacturing left, we don't even have a very highly skilled manufacturing workforce anymore. I worry where it's all going to end up and think that we may end up as some kind of twee amusement park for visiting tourists.

An end to the policy of austerity would really help I think. Lots of people suffering and blaming financial migrants rather than government policy...

Bemore

Historically we have controlled the tax rate, the VAT paper I linked to, which Cameron claimed enabled 0% on sanitary products would give us less control and change the current charging of VAT to a unified EU tax.
As far as other taxes are concerned, we did have control over them, but the ruling over Irish tax says that the European Commission decides whether EU tax rules are legal or not. This is 'back door' control over taxes.

No. Economically, Brexit is ridiculous. I'm from Northern Ireland, which voted to remain. We are lucky enough to have dual British-Irish citizenship. My English children are getting Irish (and therefore EU) passports for Christmas. I don't want them to lose opportunities to study and work in Europe.

I have to say that the EU say in tax was something that cropped up as an issue for me. However I felt that its somewhat of a red herring. Yes, they do tell us what to exempt and they do tell us we need a minimum rate of vat. That rate is 15% (for standard things). Our government has left vat at 20% for some time. So its not like we have no control, nor is the government helping us in this regard enough that I was significantly persuaded that tax back in UK only hands would be a benefit.

The ruling with the case in Ireland was more of an anti the decision made by the Irish govt which was seen as causing Apple undue advantage - state aid- rather than deciding the rate of tax to be paid.
Ah yes, sometimes EU 'meddling' isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The apple ruling could happen under wto rules too. If it hasn't been agreed with the wto that the sort of state aid Ireland was providing is allowed.

Yes VAT rates are different, the 15% is a minimum. The point is about whether the UK govt controls taxation policy, which it currently does not.
The question is not whether you like EU rules, but whether control of economic policy is a reasonable, non-immigration, reason for Brexit?
The Apple ruling could not have happened under WTO rules - WTO rules do not allow retrospective changes and Ireland have already altered their transfer pricing rules.

"The Apple ruling could not have happened under WTO rules"

If a country was found to be providing undue amounts of state aid to a corporation, in contravention of its agreed level of aid, there are certainly courses of action that can be taken and penalties can be levied as part of this.

Quite frankly Carol I can't believe your arguing for brexit on the back of the Apple ruling.

Small I was not, the ruling was after the vote, as I said upthread. My specific point was about VAT, the Apple ruling was an additional action by the EU into member state tax rules as an example of continued mission creep.

The question is not whether you like EU rules, but whether control of economic policy is a reasonable, non-immigration, reason for Brexit?
If taken on its soundbite own, no.

Partly because as mother pointed out there were benefits to it.

Partly because the next question that can be asked is whether our current or future government would use this new freedom to reduce taxation or would they likely shift things around in ways that make it look like they're doing it but actually tax money into their coffers will stay the same or increase? The second scenario there is most likely given previous form so in effect it becomes lose-lose, or at best no benefit gained.

UK government income from VAT is £110bn a year, about 18% of income. It is largely controlled by the EU and is a regressive tax.
However, the point is not whether you would vote leave over this issue, but whether the Remainers consider this an possible acceptable argument for voting to Leave.

"the Apple ruling was an additional action by the EU into member state tax rules as an example of continued mission creep."

WTO rules mean that things like allowing state aid outside of the WTO agreement would inflict fines/action too. Its not like we would be free to offer whatever support whenever we liked with that either. So its 6 of one and 2 threes of another.

carol not solely on its own, no. Its definitely something that should be considered within a range of things. TBF even immigration is something that should be considered in that range of things.

tiggy I don't mean the EU saves ourselves way or anti Tory way at all. The labour governments were just as bad at the 'oh look, we've given you a tax break here, just don't look under that blanket over there' approach.