To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

magik
Hang on.i have gone back and picked a snapshot of your post from where I started demanding you to give me a list of theee points. I am cropping it. So please bear with me.

"I voted Remain and would like another referendum".

I don't vote Tory but they got in. Bawl.....I want another election.....and another....and another.....until the person I voted for gets in!

What utter crap! Britain has voted. That's what is known as democracy. Lets get on with it.

You say here clearly that there were decent reasons for Brexit. That's when I asked you to list them.

Don't bother. I've already answered you several times ffs. I defended the op and acknowledged someone who gave arguments for leaving by saying there were some decent reasons

I've defended that, as has op, by pointing out that the eu isn't perfect. And that people weight things differently than others though the benefits outweighed the risks and voted to remain. That I understand why others haven't but I don't agree with them.

You continue to demand you answer. Precisely what answer are you after from me if it's not to call them all idiots because frankly I'm flummoxed.

But this just proves precisely why leavers won't engage with you. You won't accept an answer that doesn't suit you.

fluffy
Get on with what? What's the plan?

magik
To be fair, I was at work and skipped many other posts to reply to you so I could have missed others explaining it. But your words sounded contradictory : you meant decent reasons for doubting EU / demanding Eu reforms and you write "decent reasons for Brexit " that would me up (not that I need it sorry;hearing one bad news per day in my field of work isn't good I guess. I stopped posting a Couple or two weeks after Brexit vote I think. Was drained)

magik
Leavers are not engaging with anyone since day one. There are numerous threads by now where Remainers have been begging for one coherent argument for "Leaving" (not doubting the EU). Even here on this thread.

I did mean brexit. Doubting the eu is fairly synonymous with brexit it's not exclusive, voting remain doesn't make you pro eu.

Voting remain probably makes you more likely to want to work within which brexiteers clearly don't want to attempt anymore. It was in my case though I understand why people felt we were flogging a dead horse trying to get change there perhaps if we hadn't sent ukip there out we may have done something decent

"fluffy
Get on with what? What's the plan?"

Ummm....To leave the EU? Isn't that what Britain voted for?

fluffy so glad you are here to enlighten us. Leave the EU is an action, it's not a plan. If you want to change jobs, or leave your husband you don't just get up and wander out. Why on earth do you think that would apply here? A plan would involve some form of concrete provision - or at this point we will accept a decent ducking hint - for our economy, rights, and non-British citizens. Are we leaving the single market? What will be done to shore up the free fall of the pound? Will our friends, families and colleagues who aren't from the UK still be ok here in 5 years? THAT's a plan....

blimey valentine and magik you're on the same side!

When magik said 'decent reasons for Brexit' I took it to mean that some people did think very hard about their vote and weighed up that Leave was the right choice- nothing more than that so I'm not sure why it's turned into such a battle between you 2.

I, and others have asked repeatedly for someone to explain how people decided it was the right choice, how any perceived benefit outweighs the negatives as that is the crux of it for me.

surfer has disappeared as per usual, because she actually has no answer to this and her vote was simply about her prejudice but I've not seen any other Leavers take such a racist stance on here.

Whilst I know there were some people who had absolutely no idea what the referendum was even about there were a lot of people who thought very carefully about their decision.

Remainers came to the conclusion the risks to leaving were higher than the benefits but the reverse was true for Leaver so it must be the case that their perceived benefits outweighed the potential loss of access to the single market, loss of passporting rights, the drop in sterling etc.

We were all told about the risks so I'd like to I'd like to hear what perceived benefits made Leave worth choosing but it appears to be too much to ask.

I know bear. What you've said is what I've been trying to explain. I'm still not 100% sure why that's not an ok view to have and I'm required to bullet point and provide stats for other people's choices. I can't even fully provide that for my own choices to remain, some of them were gut feelings

When I speak in real life to some leavers I've found they've weighed things out differently. They can't understand why I think their weighing is odd, but then they think mine is bizarre too. I do know that some have now realised that they've unleashed this xenophobia and genuinely didn't see it coming I can't defend that one. I don't think its unfair to ask, but it is unfair to not listen and attempt to understand their answers which happens a lot here.

Demanding bullet points and stats behind every decision is a bloody good reason to not engage. A lot of people don't actually think in bullet points and stats. Some of the stats for the remain side as as flawed as most of the leave side's, as is the nature of data (for instance all the data on EU immigrants and how much they pay tax - different figures depending on what factors are put in, though most agree they do pay more than they take out just the amount varies). Some leavers did respond in the early days, and got told they were clearly just racist if they so much as questioned immigration issues but more in a not wholly happy with freedom of movement rather than we want the border closed ways. There is truth in remainers hounding people.

Then surfer makes me sad because the prejudice that gets displayed is not fair on those who did actually put some thought into it, and also feeds in to why those leavers don't engage because they don't want tarring with that brush by other leavers too.

Its all very sad.

Yes. Happy now and happy with my choice then.

There was a vote. People voted. This is the outcome. The people demanding we re-vote are obviously against democracy and would rather live in a dictatorship. There's several around the world,why not hop off and join one.

Just for users benefit, here's an earlier post from twofingers

Who's demanding dictatorship now?

user seeing has this thread has now become more of a discussion could you share with us why you are happy when it's clear there are so many people who are very genuinely concerned?

So why didn't you go and find another country for 40 odd years when your side lost a referendum user? Because you certainly complained a lot.

You don't want democracy because you don't want it debated in parliament. You want the tyranny of the slight majority, cloaking yourself in the argument of democracy after a referendum is a totalitarian trick.

Stifling debate is also poor form, and is entirely related to the fact that your side used post truth arguments prior to the vote and has now been exposed.

But you just keep repeating;"we are free"

Just a happy person. Life's too short to sit about panniking about what will be. I didn't vote the Tories in but I'm stuck with it.

No. I think it's a big mess... there's no plan.

I was a bit small to get a flight then smallfox .

No am not happy. I was a remainer and devastated by the result.

Most people I know that voted leave are mail readers or anti-immigrant or Cameron. Pretty much all the well educated people I know voted remain. I know that sounds judgey but it is just an observation.

magik "
Demanding bullet points and stats behind every decision is a bloody good reason to not engage. A lot of people don't actually think in bullet points and stats. "
the first line here has literally shocked me. I am not a person like that. I need all kinds of bullet points/numbered lists/planners to function. (I listed your posts even to go through them again ). Again, I think my world has been a big bubble before the vote. And because of "reasons for Brexit" words, I genuinely thought you were someone in the middle and nearly accidentally voted remain. Sorry for the misunderstanding. tell me one thing please now: the people who voted based on gut feeling kind of thing, what is the best way to engage with them? In my eyes, the most obvious way is to draw two columns and list the reasons for both sides WITH data. How in the world do I incorporate gut feelings into this ? in the end this is all how people are perceiving things presented to them in data/non data form.