To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

Though I'm beginning to see why the more erudite brexit posters aren't bothering to respond now

magik
So any thought process would do while some play dice with my children's and my future? Sorry I am not ok with this.

Where surfer give brexit a bad name, that attitude gives the remainders theirs valentine. Refusal to listen or to just dismiss people's views is what got us into this mess.

magik
What did I do? besides, that's not the answer to my question. It's numbers/data/information staring us in face. bear has just summed up some really awful things from Leavers on the last page.that not just surfer. It's a xenophobia getting mainstreamed by this Tory government and this needs to stop.Taliban sympathisers also get elected. I have quoted Hend Amry here before. Something like "now you have Trump, you might understand Mid East better". (Insert Farage there). So I don't see the point of not being really active against this new wave of xenophobia. It's for my children.

Well you've had a go one just one of my posts without bothering to read the others where I've been exceptionally anti the xenophobic rise and have provided other stats. Then you've had another go at me for daring to suggest some brexit voters may have a brain in their heads because they dare disagree with remainers.

sohard was attempting to put across some points that didn't involve xenophobia. Even when they flounced I pointed out that denying the xenophobic rise was foolhardy ffs

"So they are earning over £27k then as this is the figure you need to earn to be a net tax contributor? Rubbish."

As a whole, not all individuals. Do keep up dear chap.

Nathan, HMRC data shows that immigrants in their first year of residency made net tax contributions of £2.5bn in their first year.

Further, one in 9 households with an EU immigrant claiming tax credits are half British.

Overall there are about 160,000 households with EU immigrants claiming some form of tax credit. Overall there are 3.3 million households getting tax credits in some way, meaning that 5% of all tax credits are claimed by a household with an EU national, about representative of their share of the population.

Data see. Love it.

So they are earning over £27k then as this is the figure you need to earn to be a net tax contributor? Rubbish.

On average yes they are.

Magik

"In fairness to bear she's made a massive point of hardly paying attention to anyone's arguments, except at the end when it's become we need to end immigration at all costs."
Kindly just copy paste three such points WITH supporting data ? I have heard numerous arguments for leavingEU that didn't involve immigration. All of them were supported by no data or wrong data. If your GP will do this to you, you will challenge their though process for sure. It's our country and our children's future. Why shouldn't I challenge the thought process? In the beginning, the xenophobia was hard to recognise. I It's coming out in open now. Why shouldn't I challenge a thought process that is being run on data that the likes of Gove/BloJo/Farage tried to produce and now May is trying to normalise? Can you pls tell me what's wrong in challenging this? Or should I tell them "ok you have produced really eloquent arguments that are not mainly based on xenophobia" ? That doesn't make sense to me. Sorry if it offends you

In the mean time, I have heard about the idea of another big scientific institution going down the drain. It was to be built with collaboration between EU and UK science groups essentially. Now of course I won't have access to it.

valentine WTF are you on?
You're having a go at me now for standing up to the OP now

for the OP
Standing up for the OP now.

Bear you seem determined to dismiss leavers' views, whatever they are. There are many good reasons for leaving, and just as many for remaining

sohard I'm really not determined to dismiss leavers views, in fact in desperate to hear some that make this process worthwhile (that hurryupgarry link takes me to an article from 2006)

I don't think any Remainers would say the EU was perfect but they made a decision that the benefits of being a member outweigh the negatives- seeing as we are leaving, I'd like to hear why Leavers concluded that actually the benefits of leaving would outweigh the negatives.

Taking a single factor like immigration in isolation is at best naive, at worst, downright ignorant. Nothing can be viewed in isolation.

Your example of exporters benefiting from the low pound is another example of that. Yes exporters are benefitting but, as we are a net importer, the bigger picture means on balance, we're worse off and that's before factoring in exporters input costs increasing which will happen.

This thread wasn't supposed to be about what people's reasons were but I made the comment on the last page about the shocking standard of comments from Leavers on here because 90% of those who responded have very real concerns. Some of those people posted details about specifics of their concerns so it's pretty disgraceful they get dismissed with 'you lost, get over it.'

If people are going to voice their concerns and if leavers reply that's fine, but I'd like to hear something more substantial in support of why Remainers concerns aren't justified- something that shows they weighed up the situation and decided the benefits are greater than the costs- sadly it isn't forthcoming.

OP, sorry I'm crap at links but I read this article yesterday and I think it will resonate with you:
theconversation.com/shout-loud-remainers-democracy-means-giving-the-majority-a-hard-time-67020
Apologies if someone else has already posted this. I've read most of this thread but not all of it.

Yes, I believe a hard (real) Brexit is best. I think a soft Brexit will still leave the country too connected to the EU, restricted in many ways, vulnerable to creeping steps towards re-joining, and if that occurs, in a situation where it is even harder to leave.

But Bearbehind you don't accept any reasons given by leavers, none whatsoever- what do you want me to say & I'll say it? just to put you out of your misery. I know the referendum result was a shock for many people, & some of you appear to be going through the classic stages of grief. This isn't the country you thought it was ( I don't know if you think that ? ) but the deal is done & you just have to accept it. If you can't, get off MN & start a revolution.
I'm sure in time a UKIP type party will spring up to try & get us back in, that's fine, but up until then we are leaving the EU whether I give you a 1000 good reasons for it or not.

No

The whole thing is a bloody disaster.

I admit that my mind is close to bursting so may not have completely understood but valentine I'm pretty sure that you and Magik are on the same 'side'. Not sure why it's gone pearshaped; perhaps a misunderstanding?

Go on then surfer. Good is subjective, but given you've said its all about immigration I'd quite like to know what you think the other 99 non immigration reasons are.

And hell yes we're in grief. Some of us went to bed in a nice inclusive open society and woke up the next day to rampant racism on the street. But that doesn't mean we can't change it back.

And surfer - for someone who has joined this discussion late (on MN at least) - could you please share with me your reasons for wanting (a hard) Brexit? Happy to accept these by private message if you'd prefer not to stir the pot.

shirley because I dared to suggest I understood why some brexit voters voted that way, even though I personally didn't. valentine is determined to prove me a closet xenophobe or xenophobe apologist. Which won't happen given the post Brexit racism I've experienced, never mind it being anti any fibre in my body. I even forgive people who support my rival football team

I even forgive people who support my rival football team

Actually forgive is too strong. Understand is definitely better

It doesn't matter what reasons I give, or any other leaver for that matter, nothing will change.

surfer so the UK is now an officially racist nation and will always stay that way. Shall I package myself straight off to a concentration camp now?

& MagikarpetRide if you genuinely are suffering, maybe you should seek counselling or look for an online support group, because arguing with leave voters on MN probably isn't helping you. I would have been equally as devastated if we'd voted to remain, so I do understand how you feel & in no way want to diminish your feelings, but the last thing I'd have done was seek out arguments online with remain voters - because that would have just pissed me off even more.