To do a straw poll on whether you're happy with where Brexit is heading?

[Bearbehind]

This isn't about the whys and wherefores of how we got here but, since no one I speak to IRL is happy with the path Brexit is leading us down and I've just seen a poll in the Metro strongly in favour of abandoning Brexit it got me wondering how wide spread it is.

This isn't supposed to be an argument thread or even how you voted, just Are you happy heading towards a hard Brexit

Yes or No

I'm happy with how things are going - you need to come back in 10 years to see if it's worked. As is the case with anything when it involves whole countries.

In answer to your original question, no. Not happy at all.

It's the strength and depth of the Leavers argument that astounds me, or more specifically, the complete lack of either. So far just a few gems we've had-

• you lost, get over it
• let's see in 10 years
• leavers don't give a toss about the economy, just immigration
• at least we're not living through a natural disaster
• we're not in recession so project fear was lying

What is wrong with you people when this is the extent of the argument supporting your decision to bring the country to its knees?

I've not noted anyone else supporting surfers blatantly xenophobic stance on immigration but would like to hear from her (I realise it won't happen) or anyone who agrees, the answer to valentines question- what is so bad about EU immigration that it's worth losing freedom of trade over?

small don't forget that around 25% of eu immigration comes from ROI. Even if we leave the EU the CTA with them is still in place with no current plans to change it. Basically exiting the eu means we get a little more say in roughly 37% of our immigration.

As to large amounts of foreigners making their own communities over here and failing to assimilate, etc. It's not like you hear similar in other countries about our emigrants. Oh no, hang on, they say exactly the same thing.

Bear you seem determined to dismiss leavers' views, whatever they are. There are many good reasons for leaving, and just as many for remaining (you may not have heard them all here), and the same applies re the direction of Brexit (many Brexiters have pointed out that the low pound is very good for exports, for example, and it boosts tourism. It obviously impacts negatively on Brits travelling abroad). On the specific question of EU migration, I don't think it's bad at all. It is a mixed bag. One of the most authoritative overviews of the economic impact of (all forms of) migration concluded the economic effects (either way) are small. It is a little old now but continues to be cited as an impartial and careful review. The HoL concluded that: ' Our overall conclusion is that the economic benefits to the resident population of net immigration are small, especially in the long run' (p.6 www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82.pdf). This is partly because EU migrants have quite high take-up of tax credits, HB etc because of low wages (the figures vary according to data source, a good overview is provided here: www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/reports/eu-migration-welfare-benefits-and-eu-membership/). The question is, are these drawbacks to EU migration significant enough to warrant losing access to the single market for? Don't forget that the true costs and benefits of migration cannot be accounted for in economic analyses. And these are felt at local level, as a PP said. In some communities, the costs will be considerable and, combined with economic impact factors, might lead some to conclude that the loss of the access to the single market is worth it. I am not sure I agree with that. I have other reservations about the EU (outlined well here: hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/why-i-am-voting-leave-by-professor-alan-johnson/) but, if I didn't have these reservations, I would probably opt to remain in some kind of Norway-style access to the single market with more carefully managed migration (or restriction on take up of in work benefits for newly arrived EU migrants for a period of times, as the Germans are now proposing).

(or restriction on take up of in work benefits for newly arrived EU migrants for a period of times, as the Germans are now proposing)

which is what Cameron successfully negotiated for us in the run up to the referendum.

The most tangible benefit of EU membership IMO, which also goes beyond economics, is our involvement in what is (like it or not and I and many others really do) our own continent. Our friends, neighbours and often, families. The rejection of all this (especially given the government's shameful anti foreign stance) is what I find most painful, for me personally and for the UK as a whole.

In fairness to bear she's made a massive point of hardly paying attention to anyone's arguments, except at the end when it's become we need to end immigration at all costs.

Most of us, regardless of vote or whether we're currently happy are aware there were decent reasons for brexit. People like surfer are bringing those down though.

People didn't have a problem with the immigration. They had a problem with how it was presented to them as the root of all the evils they were facing. It's not actual numbers. It's the perception of those numbers

^
This 1000X

WRT Eastern Europeans being antisocial I would like to say this.

There are three or four Pakistani families on our road. Most of them are lovely but the teenage children of two of the families are terribly anti social making a lot of noise , racing their cars up and down the street and ogling very young school girls parking on peoples drives etc.. I imagine they were born here but they have thick accents and some of the older generations speak very little English. One of the Pakistani men, a dad drink drives, i have seen him on a few occasions unable to park and lock his car and then staggering home in a zig zag line because how pissed he was. Once he threw up outside his house.

There are also young Eastern Eurpeans living nearby. They sometimes gather in large groups and talk very loudly late at night outside the house, which also seems anti social.

On the other hand there are a whole load of Asians, Europeans from a range of countries and English people also living on my road. They live neighbourly quiet lives.

Based on my anecdotal insight into my neighbourhood It doesn't really matter where you are from some people are anti social and most are very nice and neighbourly.

I would say though that learning the language is paramount to integrating.
as a firm 'Remoaner' I would say that some Polish people don't speak English well at all. This is not aided by the Catholic church providing Polish mass pretty much every day as it doesn't encourage people to learn English and without learning the language you will never integrate, which isn't good for anybody. I couldn't care lee about grammar or accent but not being able to communicate in simple terms is a real disadvantage for all involved.

sohard - you know what doesn't boost tourism? Making foreigners feel unwelcome.

Well Fennella, even though we clearly all hate foreigners in the UK (myself included - wish I'd remembered this before I married one and had children with dual nationality and mixed ethnicity), tourism has done rather well because of the weak pound (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37490826)

Being married to a foreigner or being a foreigner doesn't absolve anybody from being xenophobic.

Tourists going to Scotland rather than England? I wonder why? Might it have something to do with the fact that Scotland are explicitly saying they welcome foreigners?

Yes he did crossroads but wasn't this quite restricted (4 years (?)) and in place for seven years only (?).

Unikolo of course you are right and I bow to your greater knowledge - you clearly know me better than I know myself, and I am a frightful, bigoted xenophobe of limited intellect. I apologise for suggesting I might be otherwise. (Incidentally, the tourism boom affected the whole of the nation www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/11/tourism-booms-in-uk-after-post-referendum-fall-in-pound)

Exactly uniklo
My own immigrant mother is definitely anti Eastern Europeans and voted out on immigration terms with no sense of irony

You can start gasping about people calling you a xenophobic when they haven't but you're foolhardy of you can't see the swing of the nation towards it.

More anecdotes. One of my long neighbours, a midwife, is from Sri Lanka and she is one of the most unashamed and overt racists i have ever met. Strangely she makes racist comments about Asians. Pakistanis tend to rant about Easter Europeans. I have heard cab drivers moan about the Poles coming here to steal our jobs and educated Asians say EU doctors should all go to Australia. Any group of people can be racist, wherever they are from. Thankfully many aren't. sohardtothinkofanotherusername If you read my posts you will realise that I have not anywhere accused you directly of xenophobia. I have merely said that being married to a foreigner doesn't mean you are not racist.

Saying all this I believe it isn't great when people who move countries just hang out with their own country men and women. It's nice to learn the linage and integrate in the local community.

Sohard, your points regarding hb and tax credits would be fine if it weren't for the fact that EU immigrants are about as likely to claim both as British nationals, but as repeatedly pointed out EU migrants are net tax contributors as a whole.

Further much of the local impact you say is felt, can be placed at the door of austerity and resistance to change. I've made the point on the much discussed situation in Boston previously, the change issue there is the biggest one not that of immigration.

Yes, many 'immigrants' voted leave.

Bigger than a straw poll, but I have just completed a paid YouGov survey about Brexit.

Seems that someone, somewhere is paying to look for positive sentiments about Brexit (seasoned YouGovers will know how to tell). They could have read this thread ...

as repeatedly pointed out EU migrants are net tax contributors as a whole

So they are earning over £27k then as this is the figure you need to earn to be a net tax contributor? Rubbish.

As a whole I largely sure they are earning over £27k. In fact I know at least one who earns more than that himself

magik
Most of us, regardless of vote or whether we're currently happy are aware there were decent reasons for brexit. People like surfer are bringing those down though.
Yes people like surfer are bringing things down but what did you contribute here? What are those magic reason ? Can we please hear them?

nathan
On the face of it, that sentence means "overall contribution of the whole group". Do you have some kind of data to prove otherwise?

valentine I'm a remoaner. I decided the reasons given by the more erudite of posters here for brexit didn't outweigh the risks. However that doesn't mean their thoughts processes are wrong when they've actually thought beyond 'get rid of that foreign bloke'.

When you compare our country's size to US, I feel proud we have a large number of world class universities proportionately. And I feel proud that our great centres of knowledge voted Remain. Absolutely overwhelmingly