Women should be more careful and stay safe

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Aibu to think men should follow this too?

We're always being told we should stay safe. Not get too drunk, not go home with men we don't know, not get into dodgy taxis, not dress provocatively, get to know a man before having sex with him. Or else we are risking being raped.

Surely the same should apply to men so they are not putting themselves into a position where they might be accused of rape.

Shouldn't we be telling men not to shag drunk young women that they've just met?

Why is it acceptable for men to behave like animals but not women?

I'll admit that in my late teens I had a few drunken one night stands, definitely not rape, but then I also got into a couple of tricky situations when drunk with men that I did not want to have sex with but who were frightening and forceful, where I could have easily been raped but luckily for me I managed to get away.

Does that mean that if I had been raped the fact that I'd previously consented while drunk means none of those men were at all culpable?

I think he's done his time either way lighthouse. He's obviously the last person I would want to emulate or know personally - or have anywhere near my daughter - but he hasn't got off scot free, which is what the outrage seems to imply (I know it's about other things too).

It's a fine line to raise girls to be safe in the world as it is without being resigned to it - to be aware of the world's failings while remaining aware that our value as women is not defined by the cultural injustices around us. It's comparable to the choice we all have to make about how much to trust others at all - how much intimacy is worth forgoing in order to avoid getting hurt and a level of risk is absolutely necessary to have a life worth living. Sadly, predators often for idealism and call it naivete.

I don't think we can tell anyone else what message is right for their daughters. Mother to daughter wisdom is personal and subjective, as is the level of risk each of us is personally willing to take.

Mrs Terry,
You keep waving figures around that 13% to 33% of nen are would be rapists. What was the sample size, the demographic, the precise wording and contextual situation? These figures are banded about just don't add up to my experience and it smacks of cheap headlines. I'm really not defending rapists but I do feel that I have to challenge generalisations about my gender.

I think everyone should take precautions to limit their vulnerability, as far as they are able. I don't hold with victim blaming though - crimes happen because of the actions of the criminal.

I don't keep waving it about. Almost half a million sexual assaults in the U.K. Every year. There are a lot of sex offenders, the vast majority male. But if you think the important issue is women generalizing, go right ahead.

MrsTerry's figures were for the number of men who would rape if they could get away with it. David Lisak's work (psychologist who studies attitudes to rape on American campuses) suggests that 6% of men actually do rape. That's a hell of a lot. That's more than 1 in 20. (And you can do your own bloody googling - and Lisak's figures have been backed up by other studies carried out independently). Add in the fact that the average "undetected" campus rapist has 6 rapes to his name (broadly the same as the figure for convicted rapists in prison), and allowing for some women being unfortunate enough to have been raped twice, the figures accord remarkably well with the statistic that 1 in 4 of women have been sexually assaulted.

Engineers, the research was done at the University of North Dakota, and appears to be a meta analysis, though I'm on my phone and the PDF is very hard to read.

If you Google "men would rape if they thought they could get away with it" you should get a result from the thinkprogress site. I recommend that site because it links to the original paper and the article is well written.

The research in a priority because in American universities 1 in 5 woman students will be raped before graduation, mostly by men they know. I don't know the figures for British universities

Why would the figure of 6% shock engineers?

Who is doing all the raping??

Defending your gender? Pfff.

well if the ched evans debacle is anything to judge from, i think men need to spend more time being careful or we're likely to spend time behind bars because somebody in the cps resents them going out and getting laid

Yes, this whole trial happened simply because someone at CPS was jealous and resentful, right

I hate the Ched Evans thing. I hate the fact that women have to “stay safe” because criminal scum bags can’t keep it in their pants but I live in the real world. I will always tell my DD to go out with friends and stay with them, wear what what she likes but take a long coat, get a taxi home, watch her drinks and stay reasonably sober.

Am I a misogynist old fart?? No I’m a concerned father who hates the thought that some areshole could ruin her life. For the DS I’ll say stay sober, don’t argue with door staff and if she’s too pissed to walk properly, don’t even think about it.

I know the proper feminist argument is to educate men about rape so that they stop doing it but that will never happen. I live locally to Ched Evans and the poor girl always had a terrible reputation but there is no excuse for what he did. Never the less, I have heard sensible, intelligent people say “I know what she’s like, it can’t have been rape.”

Zombie thread re opened by a goady fucker

When I was younger I went out lots of time wearing revealing clothing and got drunk on numerous occasions. I wasn't careful, the thought of getting raped never entered my head and I took no precautions. I was never raped. The reason I was never raped was because I never met a rapist, plain and simple. There are no precautions you can take, if a rapist wants to rape you they will.

I once got horrendously out of it because a trusted workmate who I'd previously dated thought it would be funny to give me doubles and triples when I was already too tipsy to tell the difference and even so I drank more than I wanted to because he wouldn't offer the drinks, he'd just present us with them and I didn't want to be rude. I know he did this because he announced it to everyone like the reveal of a big prank.

If we'd ended up away from our colleagues together, who knows if he'd have tried something? If he had, I would have been assaulted by a man I knew well and trusted, not just grabbed by an opportunistic stranger.

name changer, more people need to read your post because you are absolutely right.
delete, yes, that is exactly what i am saying. she did nothing wrong. he was a twat. but nobody got raped on that occasion. i think somebody in the police service and the cps had an agenda and the original guilty verdict was the result. it took SEVEN WOMEN and five men two hours to bring in the not guilty verdict. so yes i think somebody resented a former plf getting his leg over.

You are seriously deluded if you believe that to be the case.

1. You should dress modestly - up to the neck, something shapeless and ankle length and dull, which doesn't draw attention.

OK, I didn't go this far, but I did wear long skirts and high-necked blouses at one point (not in the last two recent decades).

I still got harassed by a man who told me that he liked me because I was 'pure' and 'modest', not like other (Western) women. He kept frequenting my workplace and watching my every move. I can't remember what happened in the end - I think he moved on - but it was annoying and uncomfortable.

delete the arrest happened shortly after the tabloid headlines about premiership footballers spit roasting young women after games on nights out. it is reasonable to think that someone in a position of power resented the ease with which these fit, rich, young men could go out and behave like total arseholes and decide that if they ever got the chance they should be given a lesson. have a look at the dm web site.
it may be a delusion, but human nature being what it is, it is also possible.
the thing i keep seeing is yes ce was a complete twat. but being a twat is not a crime. if it was, we would all be in prison.
now the reason i feel the way i do is because i spent almost a year researching that one case. and from what i was able to understand, had it been anybody BUT a premiership footballer it would never have gotten past the opening statements in court!!

Telling somebody to behave in a way that minimalises crime against them is not the same as blaming them when something does happen. There s a very dangerous, rapacious world out there. We shouldn't expect safety. Well we can, but we'll never get it.

delete, i'm not a legal expert so i could also be completely wrong.

I hate the fact that women have to “stay safe” because criminal scum bags can’t keep it in their pants

That's the first time I've heard the euphemism 'can't keep it in their pants' used to describe rape. It is utterly unfitting. So what if the poor hapless men can't control their penis from spontaneously freeing itself from their clothing? They don't then have to choose to force it inside another person's body.

There is lots of research on motivations for rape, and a few well accepted theories based on the different types of rapists.

There is no evidence that I am aware of that posters, advice, etc. is effective in reducing rape. In fact the treatment for even convicted rapists (other than chemical castration) is generally ineffective, the majority re-offend after release.

These scum are sexual predators. Most of them proactively seek out potential victims, locations, etc where they have a chance to rape with minimal chance of being caught. And even when they are caught the system is horribly biased in their favor ... it makes me angry to think about it.

Personally, as a women, I am aware of these predators, and as a result am careful ... but the reality is even that may not be enough.

Chemical castration for offenders, and legal system that is much more supportive of the victim must be the way forward.

Interesting discussion, my ds is 9 and I have always taught him to stay safe. I live in the north west where a male teenager was raped in a Debenhams changing room.

Recently a man was raped in a local park, at 3am. No one asked why he was walking through at that time or of he was drunk, what you was wearing as they would a woman. It was just accepted he was undeservedly raped.

However if this was a woman those actions would of been held against her and used to question her story.

If we put half as much effort into teaching boys not to rape as we do into teaching our girls how to avioid bein raped the world would be a better place......