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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Women should be more careful and stay safe

98 replies

Lighthouseturquoise · 14/10/2016 21:17

Aibu to think men should follow this too?

We're always being told we should stay safe. Not get too drunk, not go home with men we don't know, not get into dodgy taxis, not dress provocatively, get to know a man before having sex with him. Or else we are risking being raped.

Surely the same should apply to men so they are not putting themselves into a position where they might be accused of rape.

Shouldn't we be telling men not to shag drunk young women that they've just met?

Why is it acceptable for men to behave like animals but not women?

I'll admit that in my late teens I had a few drunken one night stands, definitely not rape, but then I also got into a couple of tricky situations when drunk with men that I did not want to have sex with but who were frightening and forceful, where I could have easily been raped but luckily for me I managed to get away.

Does that mean that if I had been raped the fact that I'd previously consented while drunk means none of those men were at all culpable?

OP posts:
TheVirginQueen · 15/10/2016 12:28

As engineer thumb's posts indicate. Rape is the crime that men can get away with, and do, something like 94% of the time. Acknowledging that is not hysteria. What a misogynist comment.

TheVirginQueen · 15/10/2016 12:30

it's easy for men to protect themselves from being a rapist by not raping though. Women are the ones who have to incorporate those measures of caution in to their lives, women are the ones who have to fear it.

engineersthumb · 15/10/2016 13:11

Who said they sympathized with men feeling an entitlement to sex? I've literally never heard this else where.

Bobochic · 15/10/2016 13:17

All humans, male or female, need to learn how to assess risk and make informed judgements about likely scenarios and the danger that they entail.

FucksSakeSusan · 15/10/2016 13:25

Being "easy, flirty, up for it" = not consent
"Inadvertently giving the wrong impression" = not consent

If the woman hasn't explicitly said she wants to have sex with you, don't assume that she wants to have sex with you. Ask.

Why is there so little understanding around what constitutes consent? THIS is one reason why there is so much unconsensual sex ie rape (but not the stranger/dark alley type which is what most people assume it to mean) and why so many people won't report it.

We need to be teaching consent in schools, but as we're not, it's up to us as parents to teach it to our children regardless of whether they are male or female.

iwannapuppy · 15/10/2016 13:35

Attitudes need to change massively. I went on a date when I was younger and had a couple of glasses of wine. The man I was with tried to get physical and when I resisted he became aggressive. Luckily I managed to run away, but in my follow up interview with the police a day later they actually asked me how short my skirt was and when was the last time I'd had sex. Obviously the man I reported was trying to insinuate I was at fault and the police thought these questions were relevant.

TheVirginQueen · 15/10/2016 13:35

But yet engineer thumb you accuse a woman on this thread of hysteria and being anti-men for acknowledging the status quo as it is. You did that. I observed that calmly because I'm used to that view in men, that any challenge to the status quo is drama, hysteria, men-hating.

But rape is the crime that men can get away with. And why is this? because society, led by men is so resistant to changing any laws. It is seem as paramount to protect men from being 'wrongly' accused of rape or sentenced or convicted or rape. Whether they raped or not. That is an entitlement to sex. Even if they did it it's still perceived to be a sad shame, a waste of a young man's life if he is actually sentenced in a date rape situation.

Instead of arguing with women on this thread you should be outraged that it is so easy to get away with rape. But you're not.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 13:50

I think both sexes need to have some wit and realise that it's foolish to put yourself at the mercy of someone you have no reason to trust.

AyeAmarok · 15/10/2016 14:01

I think both sexes need to have some wit and realise that it's foolish to put yourself at the mercy of someone you have no reason to trust.

True. She should have known that a stranger was going to break into her locked hotel room at 4am.

I best not drive anywhere today. I wouldn't want to put myself at the mercy of other road users.

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 14:07

I think both sexes need to have some wit and realise that it's foolish to put yourself at the mercy of someone you have no reason to trust.

And what about the ones we do (or at least should) have reason to trust? Like our boyfriends, husbands, GPs, care assistants? What advice do you have for women to prevent their own rape by someone we trust?

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 15/10/2016 14:33

I'm hoping to teach my DD (12) that she doesn't have to get so drunk that she wakes up in a strange hotel room, lying in her own urine unaware that she's had sex with one man and been raped by another.

I'm hoping to teach my DS (13) that if he's with a woman who is so drunk that she does not know where she is or with whom, he should look after her and make sure that she is safe. And that if a female friend of his does get that drunk, and is sexually assaulted, that he should support her rather than blame and judge her.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 15/10/2016 14:35

Or as Daniel Craig says, "If I saw it happening, I'd never blame her, I'd help her."

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 14:52

aye She had no reason to trust Evans mate. By your reasoning, why don't you indulge in all the inappropriate risk taking behaviour you can think of because The Cars.

jen no 'advice', wasn't suggesting there are ways to avoid most rape.

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 15:07

So what was the message behind your comment then?

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 15:08

Was just to help people avoid tripping over when drunk? Who are they at the mercy of when tripping over? The pavement? Should we trust pavements?

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 15:08

theonly I'm also planning something similar but with the proviso that ds's first action should be to do all he can to locate another woman to look after an incapacitated woman and not to be in a situation where they're alone.

derxa · 15/10/2016 15:21

Being blind drunk and vulnerable is silly and inadvisable. Being the person who takes advantage of that vulnerability is predatory and criminal. One doesn't make the other OK Yes. Well put.

derxa · 15/10/2016 15:25

All humans, male or female, need to learn how to assess risk and make informed judgements about likely scenarios and the danger that they entail. And this.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 15:34

jen, derxa has phrased my intended meaning better. But I think you probably realised what that was anyway Hmm

littledrummergirl · 15/10/2016 15:55

I'm hoping to teach my DD (12) that she doesn't have to get so drunk that she wakes up in a strange hotel room, lying in her own urine unaware that she's had sex with one man and been raped by another.

I'm hoping to teach my DS (13) that if he's with a woman who is so drunk that she does not know where she is or with whom, he should look after her and make sure that she is safe. And that if a female friend of his does get that drunk, and is sexually assaulted, that he should support her rather than blame and judge her.

This.

WordYaGoBernadette · 15/10/2016 16:51

Great. You teach your sons to protect a vulnerable drunken woman and I'll encourage my daughter not to be that drunken woman.

I'm sickened by the conduct of Ched Evan, the decision of the appeal court judges and the verdict of the second jury. But I still think we should encourage our children not to get blind drunk.

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 16:54

I think most of us already are encouraging our children not to get blind drunk.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/10/2016 17:10

I really really don't like the conflating of something irresponsible and stupid (getting blind drunk) and something criminal, reprehensible and life-changingly evil (rape). They are not remotely comparable.

Women appear to manage not to randomly stab people just because they act like idiots.

And between 13% and a third of men either being fine with raping people or having forceble sex (rape) is horrifying. The NAMALT shouters should really address the fact that a third of men say they would rape someone if they could get away with it. Which over 90% do.

Original poster
Lighthouseturquoise · 15/10/2016 17:26

Just to clarify, my thread title was in no way meant literally.

If I had daughters I'd encourage them not to get too drunk and to stay safe, BUT, I think it's completely disgusting that women are held accountable for getting raped, or for having sex and not remembering. Meanwhile a man that thinks its fine to shag a drunken stranger, rapist or not, is seen as a victim.

Perhaps we need to start telling men not to go to hotel rooms and have sex with complete strangers, to you know, keep themselves safe.

Because if women are risking being attacked by predatory men then surely men are at fault when they get accused by women.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 15/10/2016 17:33

No lovely OP, I know you weren't conflating the two!

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