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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

716 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 14/10/2016 20:07

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Gabilan · 16/10/2016 17:08

This thread contains lots of stories where people were operating completely normally, sitting on a sofa etc, and their dog snapped with no signal and no perceiveable warning

One poster said she bent to give her dog a kiss and it went for her - an action which she now says she realises could well have been a trigger, even though she'd done it before. Another said she'd soothed her spaniel (iirc) whilst it was asleep, bent over it, and as it was waking it bit her. Part of learning about canine behaviour is realising that both these things will often trigger attacks. Dogs will tolerate them, but quite often with slight signs such as avoiding eye contact and tensing their lips. It's when it happens repeatedly that they then ratchet things up.

There's an old saying with horses - some people can hear them talk, someone really skilled will hear them whisper. And the thing with both horses and dogs is that they will give signs which are very subtle. They're both gregarious and rely on very small signals within a group - it's actually part of what makes them so good at reading us. Now IMO owners should either educate themselves to pick up on the subtle signs, or not own the animal.

GahBuggerit · 16/10/2016 17:12

pack theory has been debunked for many years , they can get jealous and sniffy but thats all.

tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 17:28

Roussette - your sister's dog being unhappy with the baby is separate from applying the reason that it's place in the pack was usurped.

It might make sense to you, but dogs don't live in packs.

The reason that people complain about pack theory is that it's been totally debunked and it leads to training methods that can actually cause or worsen behavioural problems that cause people to be bitten.

Andrewofgg · 16/10/2016 17:32

No one NEEDS a lot of things. Do you eat steak? Enjoy it? You dont NEED it. Like getting on a plane to go on holiday? but you dont NEED to. Have kids? why? Do you NEED them? no.

I don't need steak or holidays - but neither steak nor holidays attack children because they are getting the wrong "signal" so that's a bad comparison.

Not as bad as the comparison with children, of course. On this of all sites I'm astonished to be pointing out that we were children and children are our species, our future. If it's any contest between them and dogs - well, there isn't, it's no contest. The dog has to go.

GahBuggerit · 16/10/2016 17:33

gah! been trying for ages to get back on and correct myself. jealous was the wrong word to use, they can get huffy at the change of circumstances. my dog was weird when we changed the sofa, and for a period when we brought the baby home she was extremely freaked out by this thing that was different, made different noises to me/dp, movements, smells etc. i will not accept that she felt her place in a mystical 'pack' was changed, yes shes a bit thick, but she knows we are humans and not dogs in her pack

Fire i know someone who used to shout at her dog when it growled, so wrong.

Bruce02 · 16/10/2016 17:39

If it's any contest between them and dogs - well, there isn't, it's no contest. The dog has to go.

Why does a dog have to go if you have children?

Because it may pose a small risk?

So does loads of other fun and fulfilling things, anything can carry risk.

No had said dogs come before kids. So I don't know why you think that.

You eat steak you could get sick, you go on holiday you could get sick. But you still do it, because it's fun.

GahBuggerit · 16/10/2016 17:45

i like how you have focused on the simplistic part of my argument (which was as simplistic as your "no one needs dogs" remark)

no one needs many things, we have them because we enjoy them. And why not make a comment about not needing children? considering there is no danger of the human race dying out anytime soon and there are a shocking number of children up for adoption? is that a silly thing to say? bout as silly as "no one needs dogs"? mind you as it appears you are suggesting dogs are wiped out to be frank i have no idea why im why im even responding getting sucked into such nonsense

Gabilan · 16/10/2016 17:46

When I was a teenager my dogs helped me immensely. Did I need them? Well not in the way that I needed oxygen, water, food and shelter no. Did they vastly improve the quality of my life? Yes. They made my depression manageable, helped my self esteem and forced me to take exercise. I miss having dogs but I'm not at home during the day and can't guarantee that for the next 15 years I'll be doing a job that allows me to take a dog with me.

They were one of the first, if not the first, species to be domesticated. They can be amazing animals. Humans have done me a great deal of harm over the years, dogs not so much.

Gabilan · 16/10/2016 17:48

GAh, do you mind if I PM you?

tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 17:49

There's no point trying to discuss dogs with Andrew, he'd happily ban them all, he appears on dog threads arguing for just that time and time again.

GahBuggerit · 16/10/2016 17:53

not at all Gabi :)

Roussette · 16/10/2016 18:20

Gah I have no idea, I am not a dog behaviourist. She's sensible my DSis and all I know is .. its personality changed and once it was growling and went to get in the carrycot, not slowly but went to jump in with it's teeth bared. She was there and grabbed it by the scruff of the neck and from then on couldn't risk it. Luckily my Aunt who lived on a farm took it and it lived a long and happy life.

Ta1kinpeece · 16/10/2016 18:23

Staffies are thick
they were bred for one job
it has gone
they should ALL be neutered

WaitrosePigeon · 16/10/2016 19:15

There's no point trying to discuss dogs with Andrew, he'd happily ban them all, he appears on dog threads arguing for just that time and time again.

I'm pretty sure he's admitted to animal cruelty in the past also, so would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 16/10/2016 19:28

"You eat steak you could get sick, you go on holiday you could get sick. But you still do it, because it's fun".

Indeed- and I don't wish to be too graphic here but a dog could rip your young child to shreds. Hardly a compatible risk.

OP posts:
randomer · 16/10/2016 19:31

talkin.....yip

Bruce02 · 16/10/2016 19:35

So kids don't end up severely harmed or die by getting sick? Is that what you are saying?

Op you have no point. I am not a staffy fan. But you have no point. Which is why you keep saying 'knives don't have bad moods' and 'steal won't rip your kids to shreds.

You keep ignoring the car analogy. Do you ever walk down the road, get in a car, use public transport? More kids are hurt on the roads than by dogs. And yet people go out with their kids everyday.

But you don't answer that because you can't.

You take risks everyday. To do things you need to and to do things you want to. Things that brought you joy or a little happiness.

Everything is a risk. Which is what people are talking about. No one is saying knives or steak is the same as a dog. But that we all take risk.

I don't believe for a second that you don't have the intelligence to understand that. So you must be purposely missing the point. Why?

kali110 · 16/10/2016 19:38

waitrose yes that's the poster Sad
Still has the same hatred towards them.

WaitrosePigeon · 16/10/2016 19:47

Thought it was kali.

Not seen you in a while my duck, how are you keeping? Brew

tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 19:51

"Staffies are thick
they were bred for one job
it has gone"

That's a bit random...

Yeah they're not the brightest, but they're very eager to please - that's pretty much a training dream, they want to do what you want to get the reward of you praising them and not clever enough to have ideas of their own or try to outsmart you.

Intelligent breeds aren't always the easiest to train.

And most dogs were bred for one job which no longer exists.

Ironically one of the few multi purpose breeds are pitbulls.

Soubriquet · 16/10/2016 19:53

Staffies are also now being trialled as drug dogs too

And very successful too

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 16/10/2016 19:57

I grew up with a Staffie. I can't imagine what my otherwise sensible DPs were thinking tbh, now that I'm a parent. He twice bit a male friend when we were playing kiss chase as he thought I was being attacked. He escaped and mauled sheep twice and killed one of my grandad's chickens. As he got older he became very grumpy. I remember my DF taking him from my grandparents' house to his in the car but he wouldn't get out at the other end - just sat there bristling and growling at my dad. My DF sent me in to get him. Luckily that turned out fine but a Staffie's loyalty can easily backfire.

He used to growl at my friends, and because he slept on my feet at night, if I got up to go to the loo he was growly with me when I tried to get back in.

People are blind to the dangers of dogs and children though. I have had to let my relationship with my wider family go after a snappy little dog tried to bite a 2yo in the face but they didn't see fit to keep him out of the way after that at family gatherings. I was charmingly called a pathetic bitch for apparently spoiling the close family dynamic Hmm

Renently I taught a 15yo girl who was having laser surgery on a disfiguring facial wound inflicted by her nan's lab when she was 4.

Kids and dogs don't mix in my view.

Pluto30 · 16/10/2016 20:16

An irresponsible driver (or, indeed, your own mistakes) could see your young child essentially ripped to shreds, too. But that doesn't stop you from putting them in a car.

Cars kill far more people and children every year than dogs.

myownprivateidaho · 16/10/2016 20:22

Now IMO owners should either educate themselves to pick up on the subtle signs, or not own the animal.

But presumably most/all owners THINK they can read their animal. they're only proved wrong when it goes wrong.

An irresponsible driver (or, indeed, your own mistakes) could see your young child essentially ripped to shreds, too. But that doesn't stop you from putting them in a car.

But clearly there are going to be parents who can't do without their cars for work etc... whereas no one needs a staffordshire bull terrier or any dog! Also people do use precautions with children in cars -- childseats/seatbelts for instance.

Pluto30 · 16/10/2016 20:25

Hellen Keller's guide dog was a pit bull, so are you suggesting she didn't "need" her dog?

And no one needs children, but that doesn't stop people popping them out like they're 18th century Catholics.