To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

Zaurak I can fully appreciate the anxiety being an issue, I have severe anxiety too and so many things that people label as weird are just second nature to me. I'm not a dog person myself, DP is, I'm more of a cat person (I love their aloof-ness) but I do love our dog, she's a wee sweetie and I'm glad we have her.

Zaurak - just to add to the answers.

Most things are potentially dangerous to unsupervised small children, but you have them because the vast majority of the time, the benefits outweigh the risks.

It's really easy to get a dog to come with you if you leave the room, and if a child isn't old and reliable enough to not open a door and go follow a dog - well you shouldn't be leaving them unsupervised anyway, or how do you stop the child getting into anything it shouldn't?

You don't leave a 2 year old in a room unsupervised with the dog not because you think your dog might suddenly attack, but because even if you're pretty sure the dog actively likes children and is very very unlikely to bite, you still don't want your toddler to suddenly notice that the dog's nostrils are finger sized... Not in case the dog suddenly decides to turn, but just because it's not a nice situation to put your dog in.

It's always a 'staffie-type' dog. Its not necessarily always a Staffie and for fear of being exactly what you didn't want - we had a Staffie and he was a beautiful and gentle soul, however I'd never ever leave him alone with a child. They are very powerful and very boisterous. I think the number of attacks by these dogs is partly due to probability and partly due to stereotypical reporting - there are so many around, hence more chance of one of them snapping. Jack Russell's are supposedly quite likely to attack people but they don't have that stigma attached to them.

Is it not fair to describe a Staffy cross as a 'Staffy type' then? Genuine question. I think it is fair, but I'm not a dog owner.

As for the anecdote about the Dartmoor hill ponies, I think it's completely irrelevant. One journalist got something wrong about an animal. That's shit reporting, and I'm sure it goes on everywhere, but it's unfair to say you don't trust 'the press,' and all ten thousand journalists employed in this country because someone doesn't know the difference between a horse and a donkey. And if one of my reporters had done that, they'd never hear the end of it from their colleagues.

I remove them from the dishwasher and put them out of reach as soon as they are done

So do I. I don't think that's extreme behaviour. Not having a dog isn't extreme behaviour either. I am not saying you do t have anxiety, but safety around knives is something all parents think about.

You can't remove every risk. The radiators for example. My ds is 6 we can't turn off every radiator in the house in case he walks past it.

While you can't remove all risk, you manage it. I put knives away and out of reach. And don't leave dog with the kids.

Don't be too hard on yourself that you don't feel comfortable around dogs. As much as I love dogs, I don't think everyone should or that they are odd if they don't.

"Is it not fair to describe a Staffy cross as a 'Staffy type' then? Genuine question. I think it is fair, but I'm not a dog owner."

If you know it's definitely a staffy cross...but there's a surprising amount of crosses that end up looking a bit like a staffy, even though there's no staffy at all in them.

You're then just relying on what the general public think it is by looking at it a and they're really not good at that.

I know someone with a harlequin Great Dane (so white with black patches). He's a very good example of a Great Dane, she shows him and he does really very well, so looks exactly as a Great Dane should and obviously is huge compared to other breeds.

About twice a week she's asked if he's a Dalmatian...he doesn't even have spots, isn't the right shape and is big enough to be about three Dalmatians but they see white and black and that's enough.

It's really easy to get a dog to come with you if you leave the room

IME it's much more difficult to get them to stay away from you.

As for the anecdote about the Dartmoor hill ponies, I think it's completely irrelevant. One journalist got something wrong about an animal

It was more than one journalist. None of them were right. I also see it often in the confusion of reporting thoroughbreds (a breed) with purebreds (any pure example of a particular breed). I don't trust press reports. I appreciate some of what journalists do but I'm also aware that journalists are there to sell papers, or these days to get clicks on websites. If I want in-depth reporting of complex issues there are some papers I might go to but I'd be more likely to turn to weekly or monthly journals and a few reporters I trust. If I want reliable reporting I don't go to the local press or the majority of the nationals. I certainly don't rely on them for accurate reporting of dog breeds.

"IME it's much more difficult to get them to stay away from you."

Well yes, my last dog was devastated when the DC were old enough that I didn't need him in the bathroom with me while I peed, lol.

I just read that they'd actually just moved in with relatives, and it's not clear if the dog came with them, but seems to be implied that it did not - so it's more than possible that the children and the dog were largely unfamiliar.

I wonder if a public campaign would help, similar to the "don't touch strange dogs" one that they did a few years ago?

Thanks bruce - I'm never quite sure if I'm overreacting or being sensible :/
thats actually cheered me up. Ta 😁

I don't dislike dogs per se - but I'm never quite comfy around them.

I must admit I struggle with this.
I am a dog lover but not a dog owner. I grew up with lively Labradors, Collie dogs and Spaniels. Absolutely loved them all.

Later on in life (I was a teen) my parents got a jack Russel terrier (slightly longer legs than your standard JR) he was lovely very soppy and daft. He was particularly attached to me and would follow me everywhere. I returned from college one evening and he ran to greet me at the door as usual and then followed me to the lounge. He sat in betweeen my legs nuzzling up, I bent down to kiss him and I don't know what it was, perhaps he heard a noise and it spooked him or perhaps my hair covered his eyes and it scared him, I don't know but he bit me caught my nose and upper lip. It frigging hurt. Bled a lot, I had to have stitches and a jab and antibiotics. The dog was 5yrs old, I was 20/21. He knew me and loved me, yet it still happened.

It can happen. Dogs are just animals, if you have a frantic toddler and the dog is panicking or if they get scared or if the hold accidentally hurts them, of course they will bite.

I have chosen not to have a dog until my child is older. I still love dogs and enjoy seeing friends pets but I don't want to have one until my daughter is old enough to understand how to behave around them.

I bent down to kiss him

Bending down over them, particularly getting close to their faces, could be a possible trigger. Getting into a dog's face isn't recommended. Often they'll tolerate it but that doesn't mean they like it.

Yes I think you are right Gabilan that was our general pattern of behaviour except that one evening in that one moment I was bitten. I am just glad it was me and not my neighbours children because they would have been seriously hurt.

I have to comment to the pps comparing dogs to knives etc in terms of risk. There surely can be no comparison between an inanimate object which can be put somewhere away from a child and a living, breathing, moving and feeling animal??!

I was comparing risk. Not the actual objects. In response to someone asking why you would have a dog if you worry about leaving your kids alone with it.

You have things in your lives that are a risk. You minimise that risk.

So you put knives out of reach.

You don't allow you dog to be alone with small children.

There is risk everyday and no house is risk free, but you minimise it.

People are careful with knives, accidents still happen. Kids still get hold of them. You don't leave a knife in easy reach of toddler because you told the toddler not to touch it.

I think the PP re the knives was referring to anxieties and how for her it felt similar, rather than comparing dogs and knives to risk.

Yes, you put knives out of reach and they stay there. Knives are in no way unpredictable. I know exactly where the knives in my house are right now and they'll be in the exact same place tomorrow. They are never angry or upset or in pain.

However much you feel your dog can be/is supervised, there is surely that moment, that second or two, when it isn't. I find it difficult to believe anything else.

The comparison to knives hs made me think of the twat man on 3 counties who once told an 80 year old pensioner that her having 4 yorkies Was the same as giving a baby a loaded gun to play with (she was very confused by this l, especially as she didn't even have a baby in the house!)

My dog is with me all the time, apart from night time and when I am out. Then she is in her crate. If dh is at home, she follows him. My dog is never more than 4 feet from me.

I didn't say dogs still cant do something awful with adults right there. It's about minimising risks.

You can put your knife away, you can get distracted and leave it on the side. Household accidents happen all the time. All those parents are negligent, it's an accident. Knives don't get up and hurt a toddler, toddlers however have habits of getting up and doing something dangerous.

Again my point is that we all take risks everyday, walking down the street, getting in a car everything carries a risk. But we still do it. Because we need to or we want to.

4 feet away from you may be 4 feet too far if your child is in the middle. PPs have given example of circumstances where 4 feet would have been much too far.

Yes four feet away from my spaniel is definitely to far.

Do you never leave your house? Get in a car? Use public transport?

As I said it's about minimising risk. I don't have a baby. I have a 6 and 12 year old. I know my dog as well as anyone can. I supervise them. That's me minimising risk.

If I felt my dog had to be a minimum of 4 feet from my child at all times, we wouldn't have it.

Of course I allow my dog to wander about, I don't feel it's a risk.

Like I don't feel that doing the school run is too much of risk to avoid it.

I walk in the park with my kids, even though an off lead dog 'could' attack them.

But we're not talking about your spaniel on this thread are we? We're talking about Staffie type dogs- one of which killed a baby and maimed a toddler yesterday. What sort of supervision do you suggests may have avoided that? 4 feet? 2?

Staffies are no more likely to attack than any other breed. Less so than most I should think. But when it does attack it's more deadly because of its strength.

You're a fool if you keep a dog bred for fighting and you have children.

Bull terriers were bred to attack for generations they are not a family dog.

You have stupid and selfish to keep one around small children.

Flowers, if you want to live your life in a paranoid bubble, more power to you. But the rest of us are free to have dogs (whichever dogs) if that's what we want.

Also, several people have said that the dog does not look like it's a Staffy mix, but I see you're just going to ignore people who know better than you.