To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

I think dog owners should be licensed, and I say this as a staff cross owner. It's unfair and ridiculous to ban them, and it doesn't work. The amount of pits kicking about where I live would tell you that. It's about responsibility and regulation. Banning anything pushes it underground.

Op why keep saying how people shouldn't have to fear keeping a staffie with them and from their kids, but most people on here have said they wouldn't leave their kids with ANY dog no matter what breed!
No, we shouldn't ban them.
It's terrible what happened but it sounds like really bad circumstances.
All dogs can attack, any animal can attack. Mycats can be vicious little gits when they want to be.
My childhood dog left me with a nasty bite ( and he was a tiny dog).
At the moment none is even sure what this dog is.
If it's not a staffie will you still want them banned?

It's really not that hard to keep kids and dogs separate. I manage it everyday. The dog comes with me if I leave the room and dh isn't in there. Simple.

My dog doesn't leave my side so it's not difficult. She follows me everywhere. The youngest also knows they aren't allowed in a room on their own with the dog and would shout if she wondered in. But as I said the dog follows me. Even into the bathroom.

She sleeps in a crate at night so won't Wonder into the kids room over night.

1smartyMCflurry I do what Bruce02 said. When I leave the room, the dog comes with me. At night she sleeps in her crate in the kitchen, with the cats and there's a gate on the kitchen because of the kids and also the door. It's about being aware.
Any dog, I don't care if it's a teacup chihuahua or a Great Dane shouldn't be left alone with kids. If you can't do that, don't get a dog.

It looks an awful lot like an American pit bull to me. Google them.

No it doesn't

find the pit

Now tell me it looks like a pit bull

He could not have been an APBT. They are illegal in the UK and this dog was owned by a PC.

It doesn't look like a pit, it looks like a cross between a staff and some kind of mastiff to me.

pits kicking about where I live would tell you that.

You should be reporting them to the police.

I have, and nothing is done. We have a real problem with both stray dogs and feral cats round here, and the various animal protection agencies and the police are so overwhelmed that they won't do anything.

I'm embarrassed that we aren't enforcing our own laws with regards to banned breeds.

You don't think the FB photo of the dog bears some resemblance to these?

This is a genuine question, not a criticism of anyone who owns a dog:

Those of you saying you have a dog that's well trained and not allowed to be left unsupervised around your kids... why would you have that in the house if you're aware it's not safe to be unsupervised around your kids?

Zaurak for my part, I don't think our dog would ever turn, ever. But, she's a dog, however well trained, however placid, all dogs have the capability to turn. We chose to have a dog because we grew up with dogs and they make great family pets, but we choose to be cautious and not let her be round the kids unsupervised because we feel it's best for everyone (the dog included). I can't speak for anyone else, but that's my feelings on it.

but for all those people saying that a Staffy attack 'sells papers' or that the media deliberately hype up Staffy attack reports, honestly, you're wrong. If a Staffy attacks a child, at my paper we'd expect (and have had) about 19,000 web hits on the story. When a different and more unusual breed (...) killed a child locally we got 90,000 web hits. That's because a Staffy attack isn't that unusual. So actually I have no interest in demonising Staffys

A friend of mine is very involved with Dartmoor Hill Ponies. She attended an event with one and contacted the press. She made very clear that this was a DHP to distinguish it from a Dartmoor pony, because she wanted good press for the DHP. The press reported that she was giving donkey rides. Frankly, the last place I would go for reliable stats on dog attacks would be the press.

If I were being cynical, I'd look at the way different breeds are demonised in turn and say that part of what is going on is that the press report an attack by a particular breed whilst it gets hits and then ease up and turn onto the next breed when it ceases to sell papers to the same extent. I say in part, I'm not saying it explains entirely what's going on.

It bears repeating, Staffs are the 3rd most commonly owned breed in the UK. If you want to work out the risk of keeping them you need to factor that in. There are more staffies than otter hounds so you'll see more staffie attacks.

Added to which, we are currently relying on police reports; neighbour reports, and people posting photos from Facebook to try to work out what this dog is. I would have said I'll wait for the vets to say but actually, I think I'd go for a KC expert instead, given some of what vets are meant to have said, on this thread.

There is no such thing as a British pit bull

All pit bulls are American Pit Bull Terriers

You get crosses of them over here which makes them slip under the radar but essentially they are illegal

"Staffs are the 3rd most commonly owned breed in the UK. If you want to work out the risk of keeping them you need to factor that in. There are more staffies than otter hounds so you'll see more staffie attacks."

That's KC registered ones though isn't it?

Most dog charities estimate they're easily number one once you add in unregistered ones and crosses.

Then on top of those you've got the vast numbers of - looks a bit like one so we'll call it one crosses.

but for all those people saying that a Staffy attack 'sells papers' or that the media deliberately hype up Staffy attack reports, honestly, you're wrong. If a Staffy attacks a child, at my paper we'd expect (and have had) about 19,000 web hits on the story. When a different and more unusual breed (...) killed a child locally we got 90,000 web hits. That's because a Staffy attack isn't that unusual. So actually I have no interest in demonising Staffys

But that's just it. Due to their physical make up, staffie attacks on children tend to be fatal. It would be very unusual for a different breed - a Labrador, for example - to commit a fatal attack. It may bite and disable or cause life changing injuries but the combination of the dog type and the lack of fatality means it's much less likely to be reported to the press, and then much less likely to be published by the press if they do find out.

This will always be controversial. There will be people who don't believe dogs should be around children. People who take their dogs with them wherever they are and never allow unsupervised contact with children. And then the parents who believe the dogs and children and cohabiting fine, and sometimes that gamble doesn't pay off. Statistically it works more than it doesn't, but that doesn't help when a baby dies, or a toddler is in intensive care. I imagine that eventually, it will become standard not to leave dogs/children together, because the risk of just one attack is too high, but like other things that we used to consider acceptable and now don't, it's not happened yet. It'll be a big shift for society. A lot of people will think that they grew up with dogs and they were fine, their dog has never shown aggression so far, they never leave for long... etc. And it takes time to get past all of that.

"You get crosses of them over here which makes them slip under the radar but essentially they are illegal"

Well technically any dog that looks enough like a pit bull is illegal, even if you can do DNA parentage tests to prove it's a cross of two other breeds completely.

There is that too yes

A type dog doesn't need to have an ounce of pit in it.

You could have paperwork saying its a boxer cross lab but because it's a certain height, weight, has a tail like this, ears like that and a nose a particular colour, it's deemed a type dog and destroyed

I think they do head measurements to determine if it could be a Pit before ordering DNA tests, unfortunately a lot of bull breeds will fall within these measurements.

ayeokthen - they don't do DNA tests, it's decided purely by eye and a tape measure.

They often don't even do temperament tests before having them PTS either.

why would you have that in the house if you're aware it's not safe to be unsupervised around your kids?

I have knives in the house and keep my kids away from them. Do you remove anything that could pose a small danger to children?

My ds is great round dogs, but he could stand on the dog or do something that panics her. The dog could all of a sudden have a first episode of rage.

Also my dog is a well trained puppy. She has been to training today and the trainers think she is fab. But she is still a puppy, puppies mouth and nip when excited. It doesn't make her a dangerous dog, but it does mean that she needs supervision. If she hurt ds, it would hurt him regardless of it being standard puppy behaviour. Who wants their child hurt, even by accident?

On the flip side she is an amazing dog and really changed our household. Ds has Aspergers and she has really improved his temperament. He is much happier with her. But he isn't with her alone.

I don't think my dog is a risk, however it's not a chance I would take. But what we get out of having her far out weights any risk.

As I said, a genuine question so thank you both for the polite answers!

I do remove everything I can - I suffer from anxiety so I think this is probably why I'm asking. A dog would be an intolerable anxiety point for me. SILs dog stayed recently and I was quite disturbed by it being here even though it's a very soft pug. Ditto knives - I know we need them but I am very wary of them - I remove them from the dishwasher and put them out of reach as soon as they are done. I'm not entirely sure that's healthy behaviour on my part, possibly the anxiety.

I do acknowledge that there are many positives to growing up with pets - we always had cats and while I'm not scared of dogs I am wary of them.

Thank you for answering.