To be extremely concerned that DS (yr9) school has decided that achieving GCSE level 4s in Maths/English will be good attainment for most pupils.

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I came back from DSs yr 9 parent evening last night a bit 'shell' shocked . The school which is deemed one of the better moderns around ( i did not use to call them that but when you compare the DDs grammar school ).
The school deems ' level' 4s to be a laudable achievement , they indicated that was the level they will be teaching the majority of pupils to.

Even lazy bones DD 2 (yr11) (posted about that April 2015) is predicted level 7 in Maths 8 in English . When she sarcastically told her Maths teacher that level '5' would be fine because she was not doing A level Maths was sent to the year head who roasted her !

This illustrates the difference in expectations in grammar and moderns a why is DSs school setting such low expectations in year 9 for 'gods' sake.

Or is it a case of seeing grade 4 as a pass....

Cosmic - that makes sense and if that is the case (by my obvious lack of knowledge on this so just guessing) OP son is expected to do quite well by Yr 11

It is also 100% exam in English and many other subjects. Higher and foundation tiers abolished. The vocabulary on the papers is complex and the reading materiel difficult. This is an exam made for pupils to fail rather than pass. The texts the pupils have to study for literature are irrelevant to modern society.
In my idealistic world they will one day ask teachers to set the syllabus!

Well he scored '105 ' in his 11+ 121 is a pass in Bucks , so i assuming he must be middle ability. Well 56% got 5 GCSE Maths/English, Only 58% of middle attainers achieved that !

Therefore if a 4 if roughly = to scraping a current 'C' pass you can see where they are coming from when only expecting between 30-40% attaining a level 5.

A 4 will be sufficient for funding and not having to resit for the first two years of the new GCSE. This is supposedly because the government doesn't want to disadvantage the Guinea pig years in comparison to previous cohorts, but actually it will disadvantage then further down the line when they are competing for jobs against people who were forced to resit to get a 5.

The grade 4 grade boundaries will be set so that 'roughly' the same proportion of students who got a C+ this year will get a 4+ next year however I'm not sure that they've clarified whether this will be the percentage of Y11s who got a C last year (about 70%) or the percentage of students who got a C last year (about 60%), because compulsory resits in Y12 brought the overall pass rate down significantly.

A secondary modern which thinks about 30-40% of their students will get a 5 are probably about right. The pass rate for students getting both English and Maths passes (so in this case a 5 not a 4) is expected to drop by 23%.

And we'll get blamed of course.

Was your son told that his targets were 4s in all subjects?

So that means DSs year will be the first one to have to resit to get a level 5.

That means 60-70% of students retaking Maths GCSE in year 12 ...

Absolute nonsense....

I think unless the pass rates rise significantly in the next 2 years (which they shouldn't) then the government is going to have to backtrack on making kids with a 4 resit - there simply isn't the capacity in colleges and sixth forms to do this, there aren't enough maths teachers for a start.

Already with resits if you don't get a C some providers are stretched to breaking point. I saw on Twitter last year Norwich City College were bussing their kids out to specially erected resit marquees where thousands of students were resitting the exams - no exam halls were big enough, it was like a military operation.

My son's targets are mostly 5 or 6 but they were playing down Maths , they are very reluctant to 'quote' more than most pupils will get a grade 4....

I guess they want to see what happens this year and also not get to carried away with projections.

Did anyone think this out before they introduced 'standards' that are possibly out of the reach of 60% of yr 11 pupils.

Utter Madness.

I just don't think you've understood what the school have said.

I imagine they're saying the 4 is the benchmark for this year; next year it will be a 5. That's set by the Government. It doesn't mean the school are predicting your child a grade 4, it means that's the lowest they expect.

Your child's target will be based on what he got in Year 6. It's not a hugely accurate way of predicting targets.

The benchmark is a 5 for this year and all subsequent years. The government has muddied the waters by saying you won't need to resit with a 4 for the first two years, but a 5 will still be the good pass for the league tables.

I would want to the school to aim for a 5. Next year our college will be expecting a 5 in maths and English in order to be enrolled in A level programs. Aiming for a 4 effectively isn't enough to consider a more rigorous A level course. Nothing snobby about it!

It sounds to me like the school is being realistic. If they got 58% a*-c this year then, yes, only around 30-40% would get 5+ this year (unless the cohort is significantly different to last year's?)

Surely each child is given an individual target grade for each subject though?

So assuming 60% of pupils fail to get a grade 5 and resit ! Ok lets say 50% of the 60% pass grade 5 on a resit in year 12 !

What happens to the other 50% (roughly 30%) of the school population that never achieve a grade 5 .

Are we saying to them you are effectively 'unemployable' because obviously they are not able to advance in to higher or even 'further education' above level 2 qualifications ! which will not make pupils employable.

WE ARE HEADING DOWN A PATHWAY OF 30% NEETS....

Cross posts. Our local college will only accept 5+ for a-levels. Those who got 4 will resit. Those who got 3 or lower are doing a different course (I forget the name of it)

Less than 30% of maths and English Y12 resits resulted in a C grade pass this summer.

(Oh, and please op, can you stop with the random 'speech marks'?)

At the college open evenings I was going to this past month with my DD they are setting the bar at level 5. So they won't get on to A levels with a level 4

Yeah, what was YOUR GCSE English grade, OP? The speech marks are weird.
I don't understand what you are saying, in one breath you think a level 4 isn't acceptable, but in the next you think the levels are unattainable.
Also, people do get jobs without higher, or even further, education you know. My children's dad doesn't have a GCSE to his name, but runs a successful small business.

Use your random speech marks all you like! =*"'

And+()-=\

Who made anyone teacher tonight?

Anyway, the issue is no one know what is going to happen 'till the results hit the fan. Poorly thought out and badly planned changes pah!

Mark schemes and marks can change AFTER the exams have been sat to suit the government. We should be up in arms!

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So this is year nine, what have you been doing for two and a half years? Parents need to get involved and make it clear to schools what their expectations are. Have you met the head and discussed the pathway to level 7-9 is? Idk why parents just drop their DC off at the school gate and absolve themselves of all responsibility.

That can't be right. Target grades are usually given for the end of each key stage. Or ks3 (end of year 9) will be different to end of ks4. Plus grades come from what they got in their sats, so nothing to do with what school thinks. So if what you are saying is true under the new measures (progress8) the school will fail and OFSTED will end up in scrutinising. I think it could be crossed wires.

Lots of you are talking about A Levels when you say college. Not every child in the old system got a bag of C grades - they still go to college doing different courses - these children were not seen as failures !

The new gcse grades are very confusing. We have been told that they break down like this:
9=A** - rarely seen grade
8=A*
7=A
6=B
5=C
4=D
3=E
2=F
1=G
We are aiming for pupils to achieve 5+.

Your right not all kids got c's but you'd be surprised how many had to resit. We have approx 1500 applications for A level courses during enrolement. Approx 200 of those 1500 don't have 5 c grades with maths + English and therefore have to resit their entire GCSE program. We don't do a mixed program. A school that only aims for 4 effectively means many more being a year behind.