To be extremely concerned that DS (yr9) school has decided that achieving GCSE level 4s in Maths/English will be good attainment for most pupils.

[sunshield]

I came back from DSs yr 9 parent evening last night a bit 'shell' shocked . The school which is deemed one of the better moderns around ( i did not use to call them that but when you compare the DDs grammar school ).
The school deems ' level' 4s to be a laudable achievement , they indicated that was the level they will be teaching the majority of pupils to.

Even lazy bones DD 2 (yr11) (posted about that April 2015) is predicted level 7 in Maths 8 in English . When she sarcastically told her Maths teacher that level '5' would be fine because she was not doing A level Maths was sent to the year head who roasted her !

This illustrates the difference in expectations in grammar and moderns a why is DSs school setting such low expectations in year 9 for 'gods' sake.

Or is it a case of seeing grade 4 as a pass....

[BertrandRussell]

The new system is absolutely fucking awful for low ability children. And for schools with a high % of low ability children. But nobody actually cares about them. The government certainly doesn't- or it wouldn't be backing grammar schools whose sole function is to separate the privileged from the house polloi.

[Bitofacow]

Wow then that makes moderns like Wellington and Broadoak the best schools in the country. 65% A-C with the top 40% at grammar. Hmmmmmm, every child can get a C hurrah.

Or figures are a load of bollocks that don't reflect reality.

Now let me think about that for a minute.......

[sandyholme]

Dahietta I was just clarifying for those who don't know the area. The 11+ is entirely optional in Trafford.

Well the majority of children must opt to take it given that 40% of Trafford' pupils attend grammar schools !

//www.wellington.trafford.sch.uk/information2/2019.html

[TheZeppo]

not even in the same book very true!

The whole thing is a mess. I do know that my bottom set, who are largely EAL students, will struggle to get a Grade 2 or 3.

I hate it. At least when the paper was tiered they made an effort to make the sodding questions and sources accessible to them. I've said it before: mine can demonstrate the skills, but CAN'T because the sources are far too difficult for them.

Wish they'd stop meddling endlessly. They just make everything worse and it's the kids that pay the price.

[Bitofacow]

Dahietta I was just clarifying for those who don't know the area. The 11+ is entirely optional in Trafford.

[Dahlietta]

I wasn't suggesting that they were brilliant because of the system, Bitofacow, but I didn't realise that you could opt out of the 11+ (I grew up in Trafford, but it was a long time ago now...!). I was objecting really to the OP's idea that as she wasn't happy with the school, she was going to start describing it as a 'modern'!

[Bitofacow]

In Trafford - Broadoak and Wellington mentioned above, many parents do not enter kids for 11+. Parents actively seek out the non grammars. So it really isn't as simple as secondary moderns are brilliant.

These two schools are excellent despite not because of the system.

[Dahlietta]

And yes, sandyholme, some secondary moderns do a fantastic job!

[Dahlietta]

When DS joined the school in year 7 , i would have not called it a 'modern'

Either it's a secondary modern or it isn't. A 'modern' isn't a term of abuse for a bad comprehensive. Some areas have a full eleven plus system where everyone does the 11+ and the highest scorers go to grammar schools while everyone else goes to a secondary modern. I believe Trafford is still like this. Other areas with grammars do not have a compulsory 11+, you have to opt in. Some don't sit it at all (but might have passed) and go to the comprehensives, while others go to the comprehensives because they fail the 11+. Obviously, this tends to mean that in those areas the comprehensives don't tend to get the top pupils, but theoretically they could. Kent is definitely like this. It isn't a case of 'My son's school seems to have low expectations; it must be a 'modern'.

[sandyholme]

Just looking at the provisional results for 2016 !

Broadoak School in Trafford (Partington) the part Trafford forgot has achieved miracles this year 5 GCSE A*-C inc Maths/English '65%' up from 33% last year and every other year since year dot !

This is a fantastic result when you consider that 61.8% of its pupils have been eligible for FSM over the last 6 years !

This is more evidence that selective education does not have to destroy the non selective schools.

In-fact i am amazed at 'Broadoak' achieving just 7% less than much applauded Wellington!

Selective areas can work for all schools...

[noblegiraffe]

No, there's no floor target for maths and English any more. A school will be 'failing' if it gets a progress 8 score of less than -0.5.

[HereIAm20]

It was my understanding that the "much loved" league tables which currently look at the percentage of those achieving at least 5 A*-C grades will be looking at 9-5 grades and therefore the schools were going to be aiming to get their students to level 5 (inc Maths and English). If the school in question is aiming for level 4 then they will be seen as a failing school.

The fact that a level 5 was a high C /low B was where the contention was in that students who were low Cs would now not been in the categorisation as above.

[PberryT]

Noble if I could "like" all of your posts, I would.

People in the real world have not a clue.

How many O Levels were pupils at secondary moderns expected to get?

[PoppyBirdOnAWire]

"Shadowboy

Your right not all kids got c's but you'd be surprised how many had to resit. We have approx 1500 applications for A level courses during enrolement. Approx 200 of those 1500 don't have 5 c grades with maths + English and therefore have to resit their entire GCSE program. We don't do a mixed program. A school that only aims for 4 effectively means many more being a year behind."

Your?
c's?
enrolement?
program?

Wow. I do hope the litter-strewn post above is a spoof.

[noblegiraffe]

Can we just remember that this is what teachers were talking about when we hated Gove and we were painted as lefty workshy whingers?

[user1471494124]

Nobody even knows what the grades actually mean yet anyway. The exam boards will make up whatever they need to to fit with the narrative required by the government, I'm afraid. All your children can do is work hard and try their best.

[noblegiraffe]

Here's some measures being taken to accommodate resit students this summer just gone. It will be far worse when the need for a 5 kicks in.

www.tes.com/news/tes-magazine/tes-magazine/double-decker-buses-drop-hundreds-showground

[Bluebolt]

Schools do seem to have varying ways of recording. DCs school have trajectories that are between 1 to 5. Which have not yet been changed to reflect the 1 to 9. I think mainly so there is wiggle room a 5 trajectory is 7/8/9.

[Boundaries]

*resit

[Boundaries]

piece students do now have to resist.

[noblegiraffe]

play SATs level 4 is around the expected level of an 11 year old. GCSE grade 4 is roughly old C grade level which is around old SATs level 7, and would be exceptional achievement for an 11 year old. Hopefully that would give you some idea as to which they are using (if indeed either, and not some school-based tracking system).

[smallfox2002]

"They are expecting only about 30-40% of pupils to achieve a Level 5 or greater !"

So in terms of old GCSE they expect 30-40% of students to achieve a high C/ low B or higher, where as they are aiming to get the majority the equivalent of a C.

In an area where there is a grammar school which will take the top 10% of students ( in some areas 15) that means that they are aiming appropriately for the students they have.

YABU.

[LunaLambBhuna]

Looking at my year 10 predicted data, many of them have been predicted grades 4-5. Some have even been given 3s and other up to 7 or 8. This data has been generated by Fisher Family Trust and is based around KS2 scores.

We have also been asked to give a teacher target. A near on impossible task because we have no real idea what each grade actually looks like. There's very little in the way of exam questions available. So, ultimately we are guessing or going with a gut feeling.

It's a total mess!

[pieceofpurplesky]

Shadow not all pupils need a c in maths and English. Many don't resist.

[ColinFirthsGirth]

Oh my son is in year ten btw. School adament they need level 5 to be counted as a pass in terms of Sixth form