To be extremely concerned that DS (yr9) school has decided that achieving GCSE level 4s in Maths/English will be good attainment for most pupils.

[sunshield]

I came back from DSs yr 9 parent evening last night a bit 'shell' shocked . The school which is deemed one of the better moderns around ( i did not use to call them that but when you compare the DDs grammar school ).
The school deems ' level' 4s to be a laudable achievement , they indicated that was the level they will be teaching the majority of pupils to.

Even lazy bones DD 2 (yr11) (posted about that April 2015) is predicted level 7 in Maths 8 in English . When she sarcastically told her Maths teacher that level '5' would be fine because she was not doing A level Maths was sent to the year head who roasted her !

This illustrates the difference in expectations in grammar and moderns a why is DSs school setting such low expectations in year 9 for 'gods' sake.

Or is it a case of seeing grade 4 as a pass....

[Mozfan1]

Sorry 1 D grade*

[BertrandRussell]

I thought the government was saying Level 5 was a good pass?

My Ds is at a secondary modern too. He's in the guinea pig year 11 where he is doing maths and English to the new mark scheme and all the rest to the old. The school currently gets 50ish % A*- C- and is aiming for the same next year, with 50ish % 4s and 5s in English and maths. But those aren't targets for individual pupils, they are targets for the school. Some individual pupils have much higher targets than that.

[BombadierFritz]

I just dont see the big deal in a school saying a c or above is what they are aiming for? c = 4

[ilovesooty]

I think the OP has allowed her obsession with grades to cloud her understanding of ongoing expectations.

[GreatFuckability]

because in a comprehensive school where you have children with a range of abilities a C will be the best they can achieve. Some won't even get that with all the work in the world. by DS has dyslexia and other additional needs, I will be over the moon should be achieve any grade C's at GCSE. schools also need to cater for children like him. If you think your child is capable of more, they will also cater for him. I can't see what the issue is.

[MrsWooster]

The snob accusations seem a bit harsh. New GCSE4 isn't the equivalent of a C, as one are claiming. There isn't a pass fail grade, officially, in the same way as there hasn't been before but in reality 5 is a pass like C was a pass and for a school to aim below seems odd. If anything, the snobs are those who claim that if grammars are taking the 'best' then low expectations should be the norm for the rest. 90% of kids in the benighted selective areas should have high expectations particularly as the poor little sods who don't "pass" will have to retake again and again til they are 18

[GreatFuckability]

its the refering to the school as a 'modern' that i find snobbish. of COURSE the expectation in a comprehensive for children of all abilities and a grammar school that only takes coached and/or naturally able children, will be different.

[acasualobserver]

I think casual was thinking i meant SATS tests when i said 'Level 4'.

Yes, you're right - wrong end of the stick. Ignore me.

[multivac]

There is no equivalence between the old, lettered system and the new, numbered system. Parents can tie their knickers into as many knots as they like - but I'm afraid the truth is, it's back to square one in terms of year on year progress, just as it was when we changed from O levels/CSEs to GCSEs. And when the A* was thrown in. And when the curriculum was changed. And changed. And changed. Oh, and the grade boundaries (so, that's every year then...)

You know what schools aim for, as a rule? For all their students to acheive at least what is currently deemed the minimum acceptable level of qualifications - then, on top of that, for each student to acheive according to his/her potential. And sometimes, thanks to higher expectations and more sparse resources, the former has to be somewhat prioritised over the latter.

[multivac]

Achieve. ouch.

[Laniakea]

yanbu - dd is year 11, we've just had the parents' information evening. They were very clear that a level 5 was required to be equivalent to a good (i.e. grade C) pass ... level 4 is borderline D. I'd be worried if they were telling students & parents that level 4 is good enough.

[Hulababy]

The images I posted, which do have a rough equivalence on them, is from OFQUAL: The Office of Qualifications and Examinations Regulation - the government department that regulates qualifications, exams and tests in England.

[FranklyMeDeer]

We've been told that 5s will be considered a "pass", or equivalent to a mid to high C. Dd is at a secondary modern and has been predicted 5,6,7 for all subjects, which were assured will be good enough for 6th form although she won't want to drop below 5 in her weaker subjects. Not all secondary moderns have low aspirations for their kids.

[BertrandRussell]

"ts the refering to the school as a 'modern' that i find snobbish. of COURSE the expectation in a comprehensive for children of all abilities and a grammar school that only takes coached and/or naturally able children, will be different."

Why is that snobbish? It is a secondary modern school not a comprehensive because anything up to the "top" 25% won't be there. So what constitutes good results will be very different. And it is sometimes difficult to be sure that the school has high expectations for it's pupils if you don't know the ability make up.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

A 4 will not be enough to go on to further study. Not without resitting. The government have made it clear that a level 5 will be required in English and Maths. Saying that you're aiming below that seems very strange to me.

[RoseGoldHippie]

Sorry all skimmed the thread as am really confused! What are all the levels? Do schools not grade A*-D etc anymore? Also seems like there are confusions over what levels equal the traditional grade equivalent? Is this the same for all subjects?

So OP I have no idea of you are being unreasonable but secretly love the reaction of your DC to the teacher (especially as the school seem to be going for lower if I am getting the gist right)

[BertrandRussell]

"This illustrates the difference in expectations in grammar and moderns a why is DSs school setting such low expectations in year 9 for 'gods' sake"

Well, it might say something about your particular grammar and secondary modern. Not those types of school as a group.

And I would query it with the SM.

And now I've read your post properly, I take back my comments about it not being snobby!

[multivac]

The government have made it clear

The government has made nothing "clear". Justine Greening and Theresa May are clearly not on the same page, and possibly not even in the same book - whilst neither is really on board with Govian reform, either.

[PberryT]

Those who are saying remember the bottom end are totally correct.

Proportionally it is expected more students will get between a 1 and 4, than a 5 or above. There are more "grades" from 5 to 9 which are to be shared between fewer pupils. Grade 9 is expected to be achieved by approx 4% of those sitting the exam. On the other hand, the percentage of pupils scoring a 4 will be in line with the percent of pupils who scored a C previously.

It's a total utter mess. Teachers can't assess where pupils are accurately. Pupils are bloody confused by the new system. No one really knows what the hell will happen next summer, but hey ho our education secretary said it must be so.

[sunshield]

It is actually called an 'Upper school' . When DS joined the school in year 7 , i would have not called it a 'modern'. I was encouraged to think it was the right school for DS but after last night and their 'low' expectations.

It is not far DD 2 'lazy' bones does '1hr' a night homework gets 'bollocked' by teachers for it but aces exams !

DS does at least 2 hours a night homework takes after his yr 12 eldest sister in work ethic than gets told to aim for GCSE level 4s at parents evening.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

They have made it clear that a 5 will be necessary in English and Maths. Funding is dependent on it. And resitting will be expected. Whether this actually happens when they are faced with reality is another matter (much like the resitting of KS2 SATS).

[sunshield]

It is not fair...

[bumblefeline]

Just back from dd's y10 parents evening, the teacher said a level 4 is roughly a low c/high d.

[BertrandRussell]

Was he really told that his targets were 4s for all subjects?

[Cosmiccreepers203]

Ate you sure that was the end of Yr11 target and not just the end of year 9 target? We set targets for the end of each year and an overall ie- 4- by Yr 9, 5- by Yr10 and 6 as a GCSE target. I would expect a Yr9 child of medium ability to already be a 4 or pretty close.