To wonder if I am putting men off

[Circuscats]

Rather embarrassingly, I am mid/late thirties and haven't ever had a relationship to speak of. I've never lived with a man and have only had sex in the context of ONSs.

I've been urged to try POF and Match and others and I have ... and they just don't work.

Am I doing something obvious wrong? Friends seem to join and be in a relationship in minutes,

With your friends that have joined these dating sites and have been going on dates have a look at they're profiles and they're pictures and compare them to yours and see if you can see an obvious difference.

Have you put down enough about yourself?What you like to do,where you like to go,any really positive life experiences(travel,jumping out of planes ect)anything a bit special or unusual.
The pictures you've used are they just of you sitting in your frontroom?if they are try putting some different pictures up one's that show you in a beautiful place that you've visited or you doing your hobby,things like that.

I met my DH OLD and a few of his friends from work met they're wifes on there as well.
It can work,I think maybe it's just your profile and your self confidence that needs a bit of work.

Op while I did have relationships I did have a very long period of thinking I was unloveable and about ten years where all my brief flings ended in disaster.

I can only say what worked for me.

Firstly have a really hard look at your childhood and your parents relationship with each other and with you. In the end I had therapy for a year it was life changing.

As the poster above said...I realised I was drawn towards people who didn't care about me.

There are people of all levels of attractiveness who are married happy etc. It's going to be something other than that which is behind your lack of relationships.

While it's scary to face these demons and truths it is also exciting and empowering because uou will realise that you are free to change your way of interacting with the world.

After that realisation I set myself a project. To make lots of new friends. I thought thst was a much more enjoyable aim and within my control than looking for a man. I decided that through the new friends I wpuld meet a man.

I actually ended up meeting the man I married through work but only because I had transformed my confidence by taking charge of my life.

I suggest you forget OLD and try a different tack. Join meet ups or start crazy hobbies uou have always wanted to try. Go to festivals you would not usually go to.

You have nothing to lose as you are unappy now. Get out there and meet interesting people and think about having some counselling. The man will appear to love you when you love yourself a bit more.

I don't even have a photo so don't get many messages. If I send a message to a guy I try to say something funny or unexpected rather than hey how's you x and they will usually respond.

I try to get the chat going and be upbeat and friendly but if it's too much like hard work I know they're not interested or just boring.

Why don't you give it another go with a really positive mindset?

What are your interests OP? I second DoIt's advice, do the things you enjoy, pursue your interests and put yourself 'out there' in person. OLD doesn't work for everyone and if you're not getting anywhere it's time to change tack. It sounds cliched advice but join clubs, take night classes and definitely check out meetup.com, anything you think you might enjoy that gets you out there meeting people. I know it takes guts, I think OLD can seem like an easy/safe option because you don't have to leave the house but if it's not working for you it's worth screwing up all your courage and trying something completely different.

I do think, being brutally honest, I'm not very attractive.

This makes me sad. You need to have more confidence in yourself. Very difficult I know. Everybody is attractive to somebody! Look at the munters you see on jeremy kyle stuck in love triangles and all sorts. Anyway in all seriousness try get out more with the girls, some drunken chat can easily lead to more, put some fun pics on your profile, as well as some sensible ones. Stay safe xx

I briefly tried old and did meet a guy and end up in a 3yr relationship.

I am not very attractive and I am awfully overweight .... But I tried to let my personality and sense of humour really come through in my profile.

I added at the end of my profile something along the lines of "if you are going to message me .. Let's make it interesting. Use a quote from your favourite book or film that shows who you are!" And ended up having a few conversations back and forth that started with book quotes and funny anecdotes that then led to conversations about mutual interests.

Could that be worth a try?

Very true about JK!

I like the film/book quote too, will try that.

I have actually been looking at clinic costs to see if I could afford a baby as a single woman so things are desperate! I'm a desperate woman I tell ye!

(I'm not mad keen on cats, although we do have one - DD found it years ago and it just has never left; just hangs around eating and sleeping. Much like DD herself )

So your DD was the result of a ONS?

Yes, why?

I highly doubt it's got anything to do with attractiveness. I'm attractive and have never had trouble getting a guy to go out for coffee/drinks.

I will tell you I had to wade through a ton of men and shitty dates (and some really fun ones!) before I finally threw my hands up and swore off dating because we either weren't clicking or they were looking for a hook up when I wasn't. Then one day I just started chatting with a random guy in a coffee shop, found him interesting, and well, now we're married with a kid 10 years later.

I think you're underestimating just how hard it is to find someone that's compatible with you. It's not easy.

I don't have good advice, but I just wanted to let you know that it's probably not anything you're doing. Just keep on keeping on. Make a list of what you expect in a man and try to find someone that matches closely as possible so you don't lower your standards in desperation.

Better a ONS than trying to push water uphill for 7 years. My 'relationship' with dc's father was not a relationship. There was no intimacy at all I now realise. I suppose on one level I subconsciously chose a relationship with a man who didn't even want to know me. It was an irrelationship (I read about this on psychology today).

I agree, it's hard to find somebody!! aint that the truth!

Keep trying, if it's important to you keep trying. If you were job hunting you wouldn't allow yourself to give up after two or three bad interviews. It's important to me so I don't give up. Although I have periods of not trying which is different.

What are you doing to be proactive? OLD has changed the dating world & any decent bloke these days, will have a string of persistent pursuers. Without advocating a pick me dance mentality, what are you doing to stand out from the crowd?

I feel internally that i am better than the crowd.
I dont know what to think when childless men of 50 ish say they still want kids. Im 45. Not worth answering??

Ps. There's a lot of focus on what naze said but i think women have more power than they're l3d to believe. Yes a lot of men of 50 say they are looking for a woman 28-50 but if they're messaing 45 year olds they're not getting what they want because women dont choose much older men. So dont worry about how you are going to stand out from the crowd in a show pony way. Work on your confidence.

When I was doing OLD - admittedly I was looking for a man - I would always skip over profiles which were just so generic and bland that I didn't get a sense of the personality at all, no matter how good looking they might be. And I never answered "how r u" type messages either because they tend to come from dullards. Or even "I like your profile." Well, what did you like about it? It's as if some people don't understand the normal rules of conversation.

I also messaged loads of men, commenting directly on something they said or giving personal compliments if they had nice eyes or a swanky moustache or something.

Not everyone is suited to OLD - you have to be a confident writer and be able to express yourself.

Op, you're basically marketing yourself. This can work well. So...find your usp...keep it witty and ffs avoid the "happy on a wild night out or a cosy night in"....I used to ignore those ones. And the "how's I" messages....I never responded to. Put the effort in like you would on a cv!!

I married my online date! Ten years ago....we were seen as being very odd but I think now, it's harder because you have an awful lot of people treating it like a sex app.

It may be nothing to do with you at all, OP. I think OLD works well if you're in a city, far less so if you live semi-rural or rural. I know attractive people who tried OLD for ages and hardly got any dates, someone else's first OLD date ended up in a marriage. However, that marriage has lasted four years and is about to bite the bullet. I know loads of people who have tried OLD. I know of one marriage (the aforementioned) and one living together now for three years. For everyone else, it was a series of first or second dates and no more, or never more than a three or four month of dating.

I have tried all the dating sites for considerable periods of time and in four years only went on four dates. I got my most brutally honest friends, especially those with OLD experience, to review my profiles and pictures. Bar one or two very minor tweaks, all of them thought I had the right pictures and a very good profile and none of them could understand why I wasn't doing better. I got them to look at the first messages I sent to people to see if that was the problem. Apparently not. I messaged people that I felt were realistic prospects in terms of distance, interests and looks.

I've given up now but to this day my friends cannot grasp why I am still single after so long and having tried every avenue. Sadly, never meet any single people through work or any of my clubs or hobbies, so OLD was a bit of a last chance saloon.

So it may well not be you at all, OP, but where you are.

Are you on tinder? That's a good one because you only message people you have already matched with.
My advice - don't bother messaging men first. It's pure sexism but they almost never reply. Men seem to expect to message first.
Put a good selection of photos, one glammed up, one more natural, one full length.
Don't put in your bio that you are looking for a relationship. Do put some things about your interests and likes. Politics if they are important to you.
Don't bother replying to the 'how's you' messages but make sure your profile has something to catch the interesting men who will actually read it and send you a message about it. Those are the ones you will end up meeting.

Step away from online dating and find a hobby or ten. Then at least you're practicing social interaction with men and can try things out.
I've found language classes are always full of people wanting to meet people.

I had a similar experience to Brain. Went on lots of dates through an online dating website which left me feeling utterly crap about myself, so I eventually decided to delete my profile and swear off men. That VERY night I went out for a drink with my friend and met the man of my dreams! That was 5 years ago and we now have a baby together. I often have to pinch myself as I still think I must be dreaming!

I know lots of people have success with online dating, but personally I found the majority of men on there were only after one thing and I constantly felt like I wasn't good enough.

My advice would be to delete your dating profile, give yourself a confidence boost (new haircut, a new outfit, whatever works for you!), join a club or similar and don't make your sole intention to meet your future husband! Look to make some good friends and I'm positive the rest will fall into place for you. I'm a great believer that there is someone out there for every one of us. Good luck OP

I'm not very attractive

I find that hard to believe. Your personality shines through and you seem lovely, if rather under confident. And my daughter is in the same position as you are and she's stunning. She has a social phobia which makes it difficult for her to meet and socialise, and of course, that limits her chances of finding the right person.

I would add that I have a face like a blind cobbler's thumb, and my husband was drop-dead gorgeous 40 years ago (he still isn't bad-looking at all - just fatter and balder, as am I ). I never thought I would get married - men just didn't seem interested in me except for a casual shag, and I wasn't interested in that. But I met DH and we were married within six months and that was 40 years ago, almost.

Not every bloke out there is looking for a sex-pot (ok, ok, I lie - they are). As long as you are approachable, friendly, clean and neat (nothing is more off-putting than filthy stringy hair and dirty fingernails etc) people will enjoy your company, and that's the first step.

The "hows u" brigade who can't be bothered to string a sentence together aren't worth bothering with.

If they aren't even prepared to invest effort in sending a nice opening line like "hi Circuscats, I've read your profile and wonder if you fancy a chat?" then kick em into the long grass, they aren't worth it.

Try some different approaches to meeting people eg

• read some profiles and message a few people with an engaging and personalised intro message. People are more likely to notice you with a "hi there, I notice you like James Bond films, so do I! Who do you think the next JB will be?" Rather than a generic message that doesn't reach out to them personally.

• if someone messages you, and they sound worth engaging with, do the same, find out something from their profile that you can talk about. Find common ground.

Above all, remind yourself you have plenty to offer, you are who you are. Don't go in with the mindset you're not good looking, believe in yourself!

Also try alternative channels, in RL, to tie in with your family commitments of course. Don't just rely on on-line, try other avenues.

My advice - don't bother messaging men first. It's pure sexism but they almost never reply. Men seem to expect to message first. PP

To me that says you should definitely message first as any replies will be from the non-sexist guys.

Agree with Tiggy. As a guy who did OLD for far too long, I sent plenty of messages that were never replied to and I LOVED getting an initial message from a woman. I actually don't believe that "men expect to message first", I think that's the same sexist nonsense as "women shouldn't ask men out" and "men should always pay for the first date". You do what's right for you, surely?

I'm an ugly guy, and while I can say it's certainly made dating more difficult, it's not out of the question.

Online Dating can be a brutal place, but it can also be an effective tool to meeting new people too.

My advice: Keep an open mind and cast your net far and wide. Message anyone you think is vaguely acceptable. Don't expect many replies, and don't get disheartened. The reply rate is usually considerably less than 1 in 20, and the actual interested people less than 1 in 50.

As for not messaging guys first - statistically you're a lot more likely to get what you want if you try to go out and get it, so yes do message guys.