AIBU to think that having an affair is not comparable to running up credit card debts?

[whatthefuckjusthappened]

I recently found out that my husband has been having an affair. It's been fucking awful. I knew that we were having problems but thought that we were going to work through them, not that he was looking outside the marriage.

During an early 'all cards on the table, let's be honest' conversation, I confessed to him that I have run up a couple of credit card debts. We are polar opposites with money - he is careful/tight/worries about it, and I like to spend. I have admitted that my spending is a problem and that I think I do it to fill a void because I have been depressed, as well as to get the things that I want to buy that he would say no to. The debts have been on two cards and all in my name. I have said that I would want help to conquer this issue and am prepared to seek that.

With this information, I feel that he is now minimising and deflecting away from his affair to what I have done. I am trying my best to get us on an even keel and into counselling so that we can move forward amicably, whether together or apart. But he is still not being transparent about his affair, or giving me any time or space I think I (and our children) need.

For instance, we are only two and a half weeks on from me finding out about his affair - he has been staying with a friend, but is pressuring me to have a key to our house (I changed the locks) and to be able to hang out in our house with the children when he sees them, rather than take them out, or to his friends house, or to his parents house. I have said no for the moment until things are more settled, but he is being very bullying and cruel about it.

So, I guess I'm asking if I am unreasonable to think that his affair, and my debt, are in the same ball park? Do you think he is right to compare them and that it takes away from what he has done?

Please be honest with me, but gentle as I am not in a good place at all at the moment.

Thanks.

In answer to your original question, I agree with you OP and they are not the same thing at all. For me, an affair would be much worse.

TheNaze do you really think that there between 30 and 60% (huge difference there though) of marriage where there is a known affair?

Affairs might happen more often that we might want to think. But I doubt that as many as 60% of people are n a relationship where their partner has cheated and have known about it.

How big is your debt OP? I have some cc debt in my name only and I pay it off at 0% interest out of my own wages. It's a pretty small amount and I don't consider that it's any of DH's business tbh.

A debt of under £500 is very different to a debt of thousands of pounds.

Are you sure he's not using it as a way to deflect from his own shitty behaviour?

Also, you said: as well as to get the things that I want to buy that he would say no to

Do you mean that he withholds money from you for essential things? Or did you mean that he would disapprove of you spending on what he would consider unnecessary luxuries?

YABU to lock him out.

Unless there is a court order you have right to deny him access to his home or his children. He can seek legal advice to overturn your behaviour and it could also be viewed as unreasonable behaviour if he decides to divorce you.

In terms of which is worse, only you can judge. Some people will shrug off a short affair if the marriage has been long and relatively happy. They will forgive and forget. For some people an odd indiscretion is not a big deal. They get over it and move on - have seen this with several friends and family.

Other marriages will fail because of money issues. Your debt is his if you are married.

Only you can decide but at the moment it all sounds terribly childish trying to work out who made the biggest mistake.

Couples counselling to sort yourselves out- next step?

Thanks all. Just had our second session at Relate, I don't feel it went particularly well but want to keep trying.

I suffer from low self-esteem and depression and stupidly shopping has cheered me up. Either spending on myself to make me feel better or on the children (Xmas presents, etc).

My husband doesn't withhold money for essentials, I just feel that I don't have any say in how we spend it, and that if I ask for us to spend on a day out, etc, that the answer is always no. We are polar opposites financially and that has always been a stress.

My debt has been on three separate occasions, a few thousand pounds a time. It was always in my name but, as he says, it has impacted on the family because that's money that could have been used for family things. I just never saw it like that before.

I'm honestly not trying to play tit for tat and I know that we've both behaved badly - I've just been surprised by how reluctant he seems to be to reassure me about his affair, and wondered what people thought about this.

Reading through all these comments has been really helpful actually - our counsellor was pretty passive, so it's good to hear opinions. Thank you.

I think he's bored of apologising now and wants to forget about this - hence minimising the affair and wanting access to the house.

Do you know why you feel unable to spend money? Do you feel the money is his?

it has impacted on the family because that's money that could have been used for family things.

But it sounds like he's tight and doesn't spend things on the family?

I was wondering if he was financially controlling when you said he was frugal. I think it might be something to look into more. He doesn't see you as an equal. Do you have equal access to money? Why can't you decide about spending?

Different.

Sex is something intimate I only do with my husband. If I had an affair I would be sharing a part of me that is meant only for my husband, physically and emotionally.

When you run up debts you are breaking trust but it's not the same as having sex and feelings for someone else.

Neither of them are good, both result in trust issues but one is worse than the other.

If he's being bullying and cruel, on top of having an affair, do you really want him back?

I'd focus on that and try to move on from the 'which is worse' viewpoint.

FWIW I think the affair is worse, but the debt thing would also be a massive problem for me.

Sex is something intimate I only do with my husband. If I had an affair I would be sharing a part of me that is meant only for my husband, physically and emotionally

Sharing finances with my dh is something I consider intimate. It's something I only do with him.

Intimacy in a marriage isn't only about sex for me.

If he damaged or risked my financial future and made my life harder (having to pay it off) I would find that really difficult.

People keep saying you can pay debt off. However the damage has still been done.

Again he sounds like a total dick and I do think cheating is slightly worse. But I think this marriage is dead in the water. Neither person is honest with the other.

He is using the ops debt as a get out. She is using his a affair as a cover to admit to the debt. It's ridiculous.

I don't think it's as simple as saying it's tit for tat though. Because it sounds like OP's husband was a miserable controlling arse even before she got into debt.

But I agree, they've both lied to each other. Neither trusts the other. He doesn't seem remotely remorseful. I'm not sure there's much to salvage.

So you've run up debts of several thousand pounds not just once but on three separate occasions? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Once I would forgive, twice at a push. But the third time, and only confessed to at crisis point? No.

I agree with PP that there's too little trust left to salvage.

It sounds as if you used the discovery of his affair to bury bad news, as it were.

Depending on the level of the debt and the reason it was accrued, I could see why some people may view that as equally/more catastrophic than an affair.

However, your husband still sounds like a dick. Perhaps if he wasn't in the picture, your self regard would improve?

It is possible to undo credit card debts, it's impossible to undo an affair.

I don't agree with this at all. Yes you can resolve credit card debts but the fact still remains they happened, just like the affair still happened.

Presumably OW has 'gone away' just like credit card debts can 'go away' but you can't undo the fact either happened.

It's relevant you say youve run up debt on three separate occasions OP and you appear to have only told your DH because of his affair.

The fact you've done this a couple of times before and presumably promised it would never happen again etc makes this time a bigger breach of trust.

Bottom line is you're both in the wrong, trying to work out who is more wrong isn't going to help you move forward.

You should not have changed the locks. You both acted badly and it sounds like both of you are minimising what you did in light of your partner's revelation. Both trying to bury bad news by concentrating on what the other did wrong as being 'worse' therefore absolving you of blame. How can I be expected to function normally under these circumstances. Don't compare. There is no 'league table'. Be honest don't hide anything and work together if you feel the marriage is worth saving. And give him a key.

Have you asked him for reassurance?

He's hurting too, maybe he's trying to punish you by staying quiet.

For me an affair is much worse. Especially as the OP has run up debts buying Christmas presents for yeh children and spending it on days out, things her husband woudl not allow .

I think the debts are a result of his controlling behaviour , the OP says it's because she has no say in how family money is spent .

I agree that you need to move past who is worse and ask yourself if you want to stay with him .

Control is a form of abuse and it's not recommended that you go for couselling with an abusive partner . Have you told your relate cousellor that he's abusive ?

Read this book and see if it rings any bells

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476254351&sr=1-1&keywords=Bancroft+why+does+he+do+that

They're both breaches of trust I'm afraid, even if the cards are in your name if your debt got to out of hand for example it could still profoundly effect the family and its assets and whilst debt can be rectified it's still the fact you have allowed it to happen kept it quiet an potentially do it again the stress this can occur on immediate family how also have a shared interest in certain aspects of your finance an assets can be terribly stressful and upsetting. Your right that an affair can't be rectified but again both come down to deceit and the inability to control ones vices so the underlying principle is the same regardless of how it's done. I think you both need to accept fault and just get on with moving on however that may be.

Credit cards are in the OP's name. None of her partner's business.

Hmm. Not really. For one thing, if they jointly own property, while none of his half could be used to repay the debt, hers might be up for grabs. It would be his business and then some if the roof over their heads were involved. Hopefully if we're only talking a couple of grand it won't come to that, but we don't know the figures. Anyway though, your argument only really works in the event of separate finances and no joint assets.

OP I think he's behaved much worse than you here, and for me his behaviour would probably be a deal breaker. But yours is troubling too. Setting aside the betrayal angle, because I think it's been well spelled out already, you say you spend to fill a void and have done so more than once. That's a real problem, and an unaddressed one at that. Even if he fucks off, it still would be. You've got to think about what you're going to put in place to stop you doing that again.

Sorry but I think to slate hubby for being frugal and people to say from that he's controlling is wrong, being very carefully with money can be positive having bad spending habits wil always be a problem. Being on opposite ends of the scale doesn't means he ha a problem it just means that the debt op has generate will cause huge issues just as many for him as his affair has brough for her. Frugal does not mean financially controling it means carefully watching your mom net there is a huge difference

If you want to move forward together I think you have to accept that running up 'a few thousand's of debt several times is also really bad. Not as bad as the affair, buy maybe not expecting a free pass for that would be a start.

I think he's not remorseful because he sees the trust has been broken and the marriage is over. Both of you found destructive outlets rather than face your marital problems head on. He could be depressed and suffering from self esteem too - does that excuse him from cheating? No. It doesn't excuse your SECRETIVE spending sprees either.

And while credit card debt can eventually be paid off, lying about it repeatedly and being secretive is deception. Just like having an affair and lying about it is deception. Of course you wouldn't think it's the same because your attitude to finances are polar opposites to your DH. To him, it could very well feel as big a betrayal as having an affair. Three affairs, actually, after promising to never do that again each time.

And I echo that you've no legal right to prohibit him from his home and dictate access to his children. He could very well use this against you in divorce proceedings, so I'd give him a bloody key and apologise for using the children as a way to punish him for problems between the adults in this relationship.

I'm so sorry

Your counsellor is crap. Don't waste any more money on them; tell him he needs to be honest and fully open with you. The two wrongs are not in any way comparable, he is minimising and your counsellor is letting him - crap.

If you really want to continue throwing good money after bad, tell this useless counsellor that you need to know about his affair and explore his ability to be honest with you, that if he can't give you the full truth then there's no reason for you to trust him not to continue in the same way for the rest of your marriage.

Good luck, my own experience of Relate is that the counsellor was v passive so dh 'led' the sessions, charmed her and deflected like mad so nothing was sorted out even though we carried on going for 18 months! Think about that - do you want to be not-much-further-on in 18m?

On the face of it, of course its a stupid comparison.

But I think id rather my dh had fucked someone else than fucked me over by getting into debt of several thousand. Although my husband did run up debt in my name too ( overdraft 5k and applied for and spent a few thousand on joint credit cards)

Though of course hes being a twat if hes implying theyre both equal.