To want to ask some questions before I get pregnant?

[SquawkFish]

So, I (we) have started thinking about maybe trying for a baby next year. We've waited because I was unwell and also we thought it would be good for one of us at least to have completed a PhD (him, last year). I then had an ectopic and realised I also wanted to complete before we tried again.

Here's the thing : the people around us that have had babies seem to really regret it. Last week a colleague returned to College having just had a baby sixish months ago (due just after the one we lost) and didn't have a nice word to say about motherhood or the baby (apart from the baby looks cute).

The whole scenario has made me mull things over in my head (finances, maternity leave, would it be better to wait one more year, coping with no family close by (and a partner who works away a lot), having a career and having a family (am I asking too much?), etc.).

A couple of people have said "just do it, it is what it is" (namely the people who now have regrets) and so I am starting to question - is it unreasonable to raise questions and look for answers to them?

I'm not really feeling comfortable just throwing myself in at the deep end, but also have no freaking idea where is the best place to look for answers (google? here? GP surgery? HR department?)

Are you absolutely certain that the people who have come back from their new baby and are talking it down are not either

1. trying to protect you because they know that you have lost a baby who would have been similar age (and so don't want to be all "yeah, it's the best thing EVER!!" around you)
2. trying to show they are cool and not going to get "mummy brain" and lose all ability to do serious academic work and stay late if required to get a postdoc, etc, by saying the baby was just a minor thing and a bit of a drag really and now they are back to their proper life with 150% of their focus and promotion worthiness.

Vladimir I didn't say they did, just said she's unlucky to have spoken to only people who are negative about it. Everyones experience is valid and no-one can argue against it.

I think OP its too easy to think of all the reasons not to Have children when you don't have them - it's the Unknown & all the variables that come with parenthood.

For us it was about both wanting a baby & dealing with whatever came with it. Expecting DC2 now & that will be our family complete.

Academia (if that's what your both going into) is not an easy profession to juggle children with but many professions are equally difficult with children in situ.

BestZebbie They didn't know about the ectopic. They aren't in my department (and even then very few people knew about the ectopic).

Maybe your second point is correct though - we were in a crowd of people and there were postdocs there. Good point.

I am reading all the responses- thank you.

Milkshakeandmonstermuch thanks for going through the questions!

Just recently I said to DH that I would want to have a time machine, go back 10 years and take the pill again. I meant it.

DD is lovely, adorable, bright and hard work. She has ADHD and I suffer from depression. I often wonder if my life would - so I hope - a lot better if DH and I would be on our own.

Saying that, on my good days, I would never ever change the way she is. She is demanding, exhausting, DH and I have to work a lot with her compared to other 9 year olds but she is there and I only can try to make it work. As the parent councellor said, "You may not like your child all the time, but you love her all the time".

Logically we have a great life, decent money, nice house, one child, no debt, life should be wonderful. Behind doors and only known to some friends, life is a struggle.

You never know what you get. As a baby DD was easy, problems started when she was 5-6. Friends had a baby with birth difficulties, a year under special care. The little girl is now 5, no health issues, no brain problems, a lovely, cheeky and great monkey. You can't choose, you have to accept that you won't be able to change what you will have and live with it for your life.

How do people manage when they have no family support around and a partner that works away?

You find it in other ways. I joined the NCT and was incredibly lucky in that I met a bunch of fabulous women who have been an amazing support network. I've tried to return the favour in kind as much as I can. I also did pre-natal yoga, and a pregnancy fitness class. You have to work at it - never turn down an offer of a coffee! Sometimes you'll walk away thinking you never want to see that person again but you will find friends.

Is it ok to go and look into daycare / nursery places and fees now so we can sit down and workout finances?

It would be foolish not to! But look at all your options. When DD1 arrived I realised that a nursery environment would not be good for her so we went down the childminder route. With my working pattern and DH's travel, we now have a nanny as with two children, she is the only option that is flexible enough for our family. The DDs adore her. It's expensive (if we had three children it would be cost neutral) but we see it as an investment in our family's future.

Am I completely nuts to talk to every single woman in my department that has had children and ask them about their experiences?

No, so long as they're willing to talk to you and you don't stalk them . But NO-ONE can prepare you for how you will actually feel! I will say this though - my mother was very honest about the fact that she didn't fall in love with any of us at first sight. Nor did I with my DDs. And it was incredibly helpful knowing that my Mum had felt the same. I didn't feel the guilt that some people feel when that happens. I'm quite a cautious person, and the DDs were new people I hadn't met yet! I had to get to know them. With DD2 it came more quickly as I knew what I was at a bit more but as I said when DD1 was born, you know how to love your family, and your partner, and your friends. You've always (hopefully) done it. But the love you have for your child is utterly different and I found it took a minute to figure it out.

How do you cope with the early pregnancy anxieties when you know you are taking medication that could harm your baby (seriously my biggest fear)? I honestly feel like I will spend the whole time worrying and that will further impact my baby. Plus the ectopic probably didn't help.

You read up the risks and then you get a bit more comfortable with it. (I have that t-shirt)

Would we be nuts to consider IVF because of the ectopic (as I've now been told there's a 15% chance the next pregnancy will also be ectopic and IVF would reduce this down to 1/2%.)

IVF is very stressful. But you get through it by just putting one foot in front of the other until you reach the end. Remember this though, the end is not a live birth , that's actually just the beginning. That was my "oh shit" moment!

Savings - what's a good amount to have pre-baby? What have people's experiences been?

We didn't spend much pre-baby (I was terrified to have anything in the house) and as others have said, babies are pretty cheap. I was careful to balance maternity leave with holidays and we did ok. You can only plan that on the basis of your personal circumstances.

Good luck!

I loathed the first six months, then my daughter got a lot more interesting and two years in I love it. Yeah, it can be hard work, although I've been lucky to get a cheery little good sleeper, but the positives far outweigh the negatives, for me anyway. Your life does change, and you will mourn for some of the lost elements (spontaneous nights out, spending entire weekends in bed, and non-child friendly holiday destinations for me).

I agree that your colleague is probably being low key because a) work b) your loss. (Although, is he a man? Some men seem to find the first six months a bit of a slog because babies are quite focused on their mum and the poor petals feel a bit left out).

We were discussing the reality of being a parent at work recently (I work in a fairly young environment and only one other person on my team is a parent). We both agreed that having children has made us happier, but it seems to be considered a bit inappropriate to gush about how much you love your children and how you wouldn't be without them, so we all play it down and moan about not being able to go out as much, or being skint because of childcare costs, or not getting as much sleep, or not having a waistline any more. In reality I don't give a shit about any of the above because my daughter is the reason I look forward to getting up every single day and there aren't enough words to describe how much I adore her.

Regarding savings, babies actually don't have to cost much at all. I bought our travel system, co-sleeper crib, cot, bouncer all on eBay, plus people give you lots of stuff. Depending on your maternity package, you might want to try living on one salary when you're pregnant and saving as much of the other as possible. Childcare in London seems to vary wildly between £50-£80 a day where we live, although if you are both academics then most universities seem to offer onsite childcare, which I presume is subsidised.

We didn't really intend having a child at all. But at 43, the time seemed right and I got pregnant instantly (yes, I know, I was incredibly lucky). But I walked away from FT demanding, very highly paid freelancing which involved constant travel at short notice to go PT for several years, until it became plain that I was being a busy fool and that two-thirds of my earnings were going in tax and child care. I retrained as a teacher, only to have my subject swept off the curriculum soon after qualification, and have not worked since.

But DS is now 17, and that journey has (mostly) been a joy. So my answer would be that there isn't really a simple yes or no. It would be great to feel I was making a meaningful contribution financially again but that is unlikely given our location, so my job is to make everyone else's life work as smoothly as possible. And on balance, it is successful. I am generally content, if not as stretched as I might wish. I wish you happiness with the decision you make.

I've never subscribed to the 'children are hard work' school of thought tbh - at least not 'hard work' in the traditional sense. I'm one of the irritating mums who breezed through pregnancy and have absolutely genuinely loved every stage of my almost 6 year old's life so far. Sure there are testing moments and he's had me in tears but he's my single biggest achievement in life and I have no regrets and wouldn't change a single thing. I went back to work ft when he was almost one and picked up my career reasonably easily - although I'd say that I found the guilt particularly hard, as well as the high expectations on me by my boss and newly competing priorities. It has helped that dh is incredibly supportive and we really do share childcare and housework etc. You don't necessarily need a wide support network if you have a really good, strong home one.

I was a more mature mum (32) so also didn't feel I was missing out on anything - I'd already accomplished quite a lot and felt 'ready'. What also helped was that we were clear that although we'd adapt our lives to accommodate a baby/ child, we would continue to do the things we'd already done, with some slight modification. Therefore there was never any resentment about 'giving up' our previous lives because we continued much the same.

I had time to plan a lot before ds arrived as we were ttc for 2 years before I fell pregnant. So I'd saved up a lot of money and knew what I wanted with childcare. I was able to enjoy my maternity leave.

What I wasn't prepared for was the fierce and all consuming love that comes with children and this totally took me by surprise. A love so strong it sometimes physically hurts you when your child emotionally hurts. I honestly don't think I felt anything as deeply as I do now I'm a parent. But seeing the world and positive new experiences through your child's eyes is just magical. Nobody and nothing can prepare you for that. The vast majority of other mums I know feel the same.

Ironically, I feel more anxious about my second baby due in November and that's precisely because I love ds1 so much and hate the thought of 'splitting' my love and time between two. These thoughts keep me awake at night.

It can be really tough but worth it. Your life will never be the same but in a goid way. I have 4.

I would be the first to admit to people IRL that some days being a mother is like a bad dream that keeps repeating but and the but is very important DC is the absolute joy of my life and whilst I miss my old life some days and miss being carefree I have no regrets, not one. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat

Honestly: it will severely change your body permanently, your ability to succeed in your career and your freedom to do anything that you enjoy

This.

I agree that you should should think very carefully. You are young so have plenty time to build your career and then have kids when you are more established .

You also need more financial security before you think of taking maternity leave . If you don't want to get married, you need equivalent legal protection. As soon as you take leave or go part time, your income , pension and career options will be cut dramatically. Don't do this without legal protection and commitments from your OH.

You need to ensure that it's not just YOUR career that takes a hit. Of course you partner is entitled to take leave and go part time. Of course it won't " go down well " with his employers.

Do you honestly think that employers of women go " yippee, now I have to sort out maternity leave cover , what fun ! " ? No, they just bloody well get on with it because it's part of the job. Which is exactly what your partners employers will have to do .

You need to have a lot of hard discussion with you OH about how having a baby will impact on BOTH you lives. Too many men act as if having a baby is a hobby that their GF is taking up , and their life will go on as it always has.

Then they are angry and resentful when aftre their GF goes back to wor aftre maternity leave , they are expected to do SOME of the housework to ' help her out ' and " babysit " a few times a year .

How do people manage when they have no family support around and a partner that works away? I think I need to speak to some single mums!

You just do. You have to, there is no other option. You get very good at juggling, you are permanently exhausted and you can get resentful.

My ex-H was in the military. He went away when DD1 was 5 weeks and came back when she was 5 months. I had gone back to work full time when she was 14 weeks (no extended maternity leave then). He was then away regularly for between 4-6 months at a time. I went part time when DD1 was 13 months as I was on my knees.

I look back now and wonder how the hell I managed. But I did. The we had DD2 when DD1 was 5 - she has a genetic disorder only diagnosed after birth; she has significant physical and learning disabilities. Then we had DD3 and ex-H and I split when she was 5/6.

I have no family support and only managed to work part time due to a brilliant childminder. I lost my potential career and some friendships due to my children. I love them dearly and wouldn't be without them (most of the time) but now they are nearly 18, 12 and 10 I know life could have been very different.

If I went back in time would I have had children? Yes, definitely. They enhance my life and I am very privileged to be their mum. But it has been hard.

Being a parent is hard.

Being a single parent is REALLY hard.

Being a single parent of a disabled child is REALLY REALLY hard.

Also lots of fathers decide to opt out of various bits of parenting because they don't find them " rewarding " . An option rarely open to mothers .

I've yet to hear a mother say " it's not much fun doing night feeds and changing nappies so I don't do it, I'll be more interested when she's 4 and I can chat to her and take her to football "

Just a quickie on the IVF question (can't comment on parenthood, unfortunately) - I'd advise against IVF unless you find you can't conceive without it. It doesn't rule out ectopic pregnancy, unfortunately (the embryo can still travel back up the tube or implant on the cervix). What IVF is good at is removing some of the hormonal or logistical obstacles to conception - e.g. getting sperm to egg in the absence of spontaneous ovulation, or motile sperm - but it doesn't improve your chances by much at all if those are not your particular obstacles. It's a lot of heartache and expense & invasive stuff to go through if it's not going to boost your odds dramatically. Plus the enormous doses of hormones you need to take for IVF could interact badly with the medications you're currently on. In my experience it was a much bigger deal, physically & emotionally,
than anyone made it out to be.

I'd suggest having an HSG (ink test of the tubes, which can sometimes 'blow' them open if there's been a blockage) and a hysteroscopy to test for uterine adhesions that could be interfering with implantation. Good luck!

Kr1stina You are well off the mark with your views / judgement on my DP.

The male you are describing is not him. Nor is the situation that I would be the only one taking a hit on my career - he has done everything he can, and will continue to do everything he can, to support my career. However, due to the nature of his career Shared Parental Leave is difficult. And when awarded it can be withdrawn and short notice. We knew this when we made the decision he would leave academia.

Thanks again for all the replies - still reading!

BipBippadotta Thanks - actually great point. I can't even use the hormonal forms of contraception due to medication interaction. Hadn't considered this part of IVF at all really (I was merely looking at it from the ectopic stats side).

I'm the polar opposite of the people you've spoken to. I'm 24, and DH and I met when I was 19. We wanted kids from the get go but waited until after we were married (so as we could afford a wedding). We are on low income as I've decided to stay at home with our now 18mo but we have enough room for us and our second baby which is due in January.

I. Love. It. Everything about it. I've been tired beyond belief, completely clueless, stressed about money...not for a second did I think "this would have been so much easier without you DD" because I just love having her so much.

I know she's still so young yet and I'm more than aware I've got tough times ahead but this is what my life was meant to be, and it's wonderful.

Squawk - I was talking about fathers in general . Why woudl you think it was a judgement on your DP? Sounds like I've hit a nerve there

*You also need more financial security before you think of taking maternity leave . If you don't want to get married, you need equivalent legal protection. As soon as you take leave or go part time, your income , pension and career options will be cut dramatically. Don't do this without legal protection and commitments from your OH.

You need to ensure that it's not just YOUR career that takes a hit. Of course you partner is entitled to take leave and go part time. Of course it won't " go down well " with his employers.

Do you honestly think that employers of women go " yippee, now I have to sort out maternity leave cover , what fun ! " ? No, they just bloody well get on with it because it's part of the job. Which is exactly what your partners employers will have to do .

You need to have a lot of hard discussion with you OH about how having a baby will impact on BOTH you lives. Too many men act as if having a baby is a hobby that their GF is taking up , and their life will go on as it always has. *

Because you mention him (OH) several times. No nerve hit, just pointing out that's not the situation with us.

Perhaps it's your nerve that is hit on this issue

I think you're being extremely sensible in thinking it through as much as you can.

I love my DC very much but I'm miserable as a SAHM, I hate it. I wish I'd thought it all through a lot more and put myself in a position where I could've gone back to work part time after DD was born. The happiest mothers I know work three or four days a week and I desperately wish I'd made that possible for myself before plunging in with my first pregnancy.

I feel like I've lost everything that made me 'me'. I don't regret my children as such, they're gorgeous and I could never wish them away. But I do wish things were different.

To all the academics that have answered: Yep, I am going to finish my PhD first. I realised when I was juggling with 9 month transfer report and ectopic pregnancy I couldn't go through that again. I should be finished in the next five months (waaaaay ahead of time). Thanks. I've also emailed my college HR in confidence to ask about how it would work if I transferred from PhD to PostDoc here with SMP and Employer Maternity Pay (as I've done a lot of teaching, I've already had a contract with my University for over a year).

Thanks again everyone!

For goodness sake! Talk about gloom and doom! My son is 5 .... best thing ever . We have emigrated twice together and now live happily in Spain. I was a single mother (father totally absent and contributes nothi g - i have 2 jobs) until January of this year......family support limited because both my parents work full time still a day live thousands of miles away.also did not have to give up hobby.....still boxing including competing until I was 29. I retrained as a TEFL teacher when my son was 3. I got pregnant when I was 25. There has been the occasional hard moment. But generally a pleasure.it's not te "terrible strain but kind of worth it set up beige described here" it can be lovely! And I'm not some mother earth type.....I just love my son and honestly don't find it that difficult. It's nice!

Honestly: it will severely change your body permanently, your ability to succeed in your career and your freedom to do anything that you enjoy.

Disagree with the first point, it doesn't have to change your body. Yes you are likely to have a few years where you are too busy or tired to eat a fantastic diet or do lots of exercise but I am slimmer, fitter and stronger now than I ever was pre pregnancy. My "baby" is now 8 so I've had time to recover