AIBU to want to let a 10yr old decide?

[waffilyversati1e]

My daughter is off to secondary school next year and where we are we have the choice of sending her to the local academy where our older son goes or to try and pass the entrance exam for a much better school (stats wise), she's a bright kid and (without too much smug) I think she would easily pass.

That school boasts that 97% of its pupils leave with 5 or more a/a* GCSEs and a high percentage go on to university (plus its a cathedral school so if she did get to be head girl she is allowed to get hitched at the cathedral - I know, I know but could you imagine the pics!! lol) but its in the middle of the city so it would mean 2 buses there everyday and possibly struggling to afford all of the extras (they apparently have a £900 skiing trip every year as well as the more educational trips) but academically I get the feeling that the children and school would be better for my daughter

The academy is not an awful school but during my sons time there he has been bullied (including being physically attacked) and the school have been really a bit rubbish about the whole thing in my opinion. He has never enjoyed school too much (hes just more of a practical person) and tends to coast when it comes to his grades. Only now in year 11 are the school finally responding to my requests about keeping in touch with regards to incomplete homework etc. It is local though so travelling in would mean a 20 minute walk and of course most of my 10 yr olds friends will go there.

My OH really wants our daughter to go to the "better" school and thinks we need to fill in the application based on our preferences but I ultimately think it should be our daughters choice since she is the one who will effectively grow up there! She is happy to take the entrance exam (her idea anyway) but has said that having seen both schools she much prefers the shiny new academy building (the other school is old, it was founded in the 1500's) so she thinks she would prefer to go there.

I think you should be a bit careful about making decisions in the absolute assumption she'd pass the entrance exam, or at least about letting her know this. I grew up in an 11+ area and I still remember how upset one girl in my primary school class was when she didn't get into the grammar school: her parents had absolutely taken it for granted that she would. The performance of a 10 year old in a couple of tests on a particular day is not that predictable (which is one argument against selection at that age at all, of course).

Not the same as no entrance exams involved, but we live virtually on top of an 'outstanding' school that people literally move house to get into, and up the road is a 'good' rated school with a poor reputation historically but now doing much better.

DS is 9 and Year 5. Currently he prefers the good school over the outstanding school, even though most of his friends will go to outstanding school.

I trust his opinion, and I was actually thinking the same way. I firmly believe in letting your DC make the decision as to where they will spend the next 5-7 years of their lives.

When you say shiny new buildings, Is it more about facilities rather than looks? For example, for us the pool at the outstanding school is old and not as clean and safe as the pool at the good school and DS (a swimmer, so this is important to him) would prefer a pool that doesn't look like it needs to be dredged.

And do look at their results comparatively - as PP said, the selective school is only taking the best of the best, so their results will look better on paper. Whilst other schools in my area boast what % of students go on to university, the good school made a point if saying 100% of their students who wanted to go to uni got a place. Big distinction.

I don't think you can compare your DS experience. It sounds like he has a very different personality. How have your DDs relationships at primary been? If they've been mostly ok there's no reason to think she will be bullied, although your concerns on how the school deals with it are obviously well founded. Is being with her friends important to her?

Still concerned the OP says her DD is due to go to secondary school 'next year' which to me means 2017, which thus means currently in y6 with applications due end October, and selective tests already done so this whole conversation could be pointless.

Hopefully still in y5 and not starting until 2018.

Let her take the exam especially as you say it was her idea. Discuss then but you retain final say & agree do not be swayed by where friends are going, they make new friends. Ski trips are optional and many will not go on it.

Personally I think 10 is quite young to be making important decisions so we've always given quite a strong steer about things like schools.
I found my DC were quite happy to be guided, especially perhaps when DH and I were of the same opinion on the options.
I wouldn't want to send them somewhere they weren't happy with, but fortunately it never came close to that. Open Day visits can be helpful!
Our DC go to a faith cathedral school and it's been great

I think the problem with letting your dc make the decision entirley is that they don't understand many of the issues involved. They also are swayed by superficial things.
For example, dd1 loved one school we visited because they did a cool science experiment on Open Evening.
Now it may be that they did the cool experiment because they have a fab scinece department, or it may be that they just had a bright idea to attract new kids.

Ds passed the 11+ and had the opportunity to go to a grammar school, but it meant travelling. We visited a lot of schools, and for a lot of reasons, we felt he would do really well at the grammar. It was less to do with it being a grammar and more to do with some of the values of the school. ds didn't want to go. He really wanted to go to the same school as his friends. (which is a sink comp) I know perfectly well, that most frienddships don't survive year 7. Most of them make new friends. I also knew and understood a lot of things about peer pressure and it not being cool to be clever etc that he didn't get.

We sent him to the grammar. I promised him that if he wasn't happy by the end of year 7, we would move him.
He loves it.

I favour giving your child a say but that should be an informed say. Shiny new buildings are not enough.

She should do the exam - she may not even pass, in which case the discussion is irrelevant. In the meantime, take her to see both schools plenty, including going to open days during the school day, if they're offered, and speak to people you know at the better school - to see if it is as good as the stats suggest. Check value-added info - it may be the better school just gets better results because it selects. And there may b bullying there too.

I favour kids choosing - but only from a list pre-selected by the parents. In my case, my parents chose without consulting me at all, and although I understand why they made their choice and agree with it now, I was very upset at that age at not being consulted or having the decision explained to me. Being part of the decision-making process would have helped me feel more positive about the school - as it was, it took me a long time to settle in, and I was very scared, as like your dd I went to the 'good' school where I knew no-one, instead of the local school my friends were going to.

I'm surprised your dd is so keen on the academy though if her brother has been bullied there? Maybe get your ds to talk to your dd about the pros and cons of the school she prefers?

Get her to sit the exam without any pressure. Just to see if she passes. (If she's as bright as you say, and wants to go to the other school she may simply muff the exam.)

And then make the journey at least once and see for yourself whether it seems doable.

I would let her do the exam and go from there. However, if she has her heart set on the other school there is the possibility she won't try that hard for the exam.

YABVU.

How about you act like the parent. Can you not recognise that your DD at 10 years old is making the decision based on the fact that the shiny new academy building is nicer than the other. She isnt weighing up pros and cons properly because she is 10. Therefore it is for you to make the decision. If she is happy to sit the exam, then fine, if she gets in, make her go to the better school, not the rubbish one because she likes the building.

YABU. The purpose of a parent is to make decisions where the child lacks the experience and maturity to make herself.
If she is going next year , aren't you leaving it a bit late? The 11+ is done and dusted round here.Also your DD needs to prepare I have seen far too many tears on results day where parents assumed their child would sail through.

This is a really tough one.

Can your daughter do "taster days" and get as much feel for the two schools as possible? The idea about trying out the bus route is a good one. If she is willing to do the exam, let her and make a decision afterwards. If she does well, that and a serious talk may be enough to sway her.

Whilst I am happy to let my son have a say in this school (he is 11), I do try and guide him - otherwise his choice be determined by the meal selection and sports on offer. And if I thought he was making the wrong choice for the wrong reasons, I would put my foot down.

The "selective" school will inevitably have a better set of results, as they get to cherry pick. That doesn't mean your daughter would not do well in a comprehensive. Gifted pupils who are self confident tend to do well wherever they go, unless, of course, the school is truly abysmal.

However, it does sound like you have issues with the other school.

Obviously I don't know you or your daughter, but if she is happy to do the exam and says she prefers the other school because it is new, could she at some level be wanting a firm steer from you? Her "choice" may be heavily influenced by her peers. It can be hard to be the one to "stand out". My gut feel is that if she really wanted to go to the shiny new school she would dig her heels in over the exam. Tough call, but being positive without overdoing it about the benefits of the selective school may encourage her.

Shiny buildings aren't enough, but neither is a Cathedral wedding!

My parents wanted me to go to a Grammar School which would involve a bus journey, I wanted to go to the local Comp where all my friends were going.

They didn't push hard enough and I didn't do too well.

I won't be letting my DS choose.

The selective tests are not 'already done' at all schools. We have three coming up (for Sept 2017 intake). One in Nov & 2 in January. Visits have been done but all 3 still have other visiting days available.

I will discuss it & their preferences, but they won't be making the final decision. Friends going there, shiny new buildings, colour of the uniform...nope 😆

they apparently have a £900 skiing trip every year as well as the more educational trips

This doesn't need to be included in the equation! Most schools have expensive trips available, but they're not compulsory. My 3ds have managed to successfully negotiate their way through their school career so far without getting involved in the ridiculously expensive skiing trips and rugby tours which are touted around, so have most of their friends. '"We can't afford it" usually does the trick! And no, they're not shunned as outcasts, because only a minority ever go on these trips.

Definitely don't let her choose - 10 is way too young to make an informed decision that will affect your future so strongly.

A friend of mine had the same choice (full scholarship to one of the top private schools in the country or local comp) and he chose the comp because his parents said the other would 'be more work'

He was okay but didn't love school, got out asap, and now massively regrets not going to university. That 'choice' age 10 was detrimental to his career options for life.

Has your daughter had a chance to practise entrance exam papers? If not, she may struggle to get a place at the selective school anyway.

My parents let me choose (all those years ago) and although I think I made the right choice and quite enjoyed considering the options (mainly between a girls grammar and a mixed grammar) I think I would have liked more input from them because it would have shown they cared about it more, maybe especially DF. Also in those days open days weren't common and we didn't go to any, so I didn't really have much to go on.
It was a bit similar when it came to choosing Uni's, but at least then I was 18, so more able to read through the prospectuses and make an informed decision. I still remember choosing some because they were near the sea though!

Also the bleating about my friends going to the comp...11 is so young. You make more friends. Even if they went to the local comp there will be other children from other schools and often existing friendships cool off as they meet new people

Need Really? So people have to apply for a school without knowing whether they will meet the standard? Wow. So glad we are in a comp area ...

(Grammar school in next county does tests in Sept, never crossed my mind people would have to list a school they might not even pass the academic test for).

She is a child and has no idea what will best for her regarding education. What she will be looking at is where her friends are going, maybe how the school ground look and whether the 'extra curriculum activities' look nice.

That's not how you chose a school.

IMO, up to you to make your research and see how each school will be.
Look at yur dd's temperament, her abilities and chose what would fit HER best. (Eg the crap school your ds is going to might be a struggle for a bright kid who will put into the 'nerd' category straight away)
2 buses isn't that much and is easily manageable by a 11~12yo.
And the skiing trips aren't compulsory (we have the same ones at our school plus usually another trip at the end of the year. You certainly don't have to do it all, nor even just one of them)

Please don't let her chose. Let her express what she would prefer. Let her explain why. take it into account. But take the responsibility for the choice.

Children have parents as they are not mature enough to make life choices for themselves.