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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think you should be able to network with people of opposite gender...

100 replies

RingOfFire79 · 04/10/2016 17:55

...and not have them get all odd/flirty/declare their feelings for you after a bit? What do professional women do to network with men without this happening?

I am a twenty-something, unmarried (but in a long-term relationship) woman in a male-dominated industry where most (and the best) networking takes place in bars/over dinner/at evening receptions. I dress (though I like to think this shouldn't matter) conservatively in blouses, pencil skirts, skirt suits - never any cleavage and never anything above the knee. I usually wear flats because heels are too much like hard work for getting between meetings. I (like to think!) I wear tasteful, discreet make-up.

I am gregarious - I have to be, doing what I do - and equally with men and women. My role is pretty nerdy and socialising is not a major part of my job but networking is useful for any career. Since I have started working, men (often senior men) ask me for networking coffees or drinks or lunch. They usually have a wedding ring or mention their wife and children. I always casually drop the fact that I have a partner into the conversation early on. I don't get drunk, though I will have a glass of wine or two. I have tried networking with the few women but they never seem to want to meet up (my closest friends are female so it's not that I'm not a girls' girl).

Sometimes it looks like someone in the industry might become a friend. Then I will go for dinner with them. Regardless of whether it's dinner or drinks or a coffee, there have been only a few instances of a good professional relationship (i.e. where we've met up for a coffee or a drink more than once over, say, the course of 18 months) where the guy hasn't at some stage made a pass at me or sent me a text saying he wishes we could be more than friends/colleagues or made a lunge at the end of the evening. This is over the course of several years. I am bored of it and don't know how to build a good network without interacting with any men. And all my male colleagues go for networking dinners with people.

I suppose I cannot go for dinner with men in my industry. I also no longer go for more than one round of drinks each with them. But I wonder whether I shouldn't just stop doing alcohol (though this is where all the best networking takes place in my profession) with them at all, and stick to coffees and lunches? Is that what other professional women do? Should I reduce the frequency of a coffee/drink? It doesn't seem to happen to my female friends, I think because they work in different industries or aren't too fussed about networking.

I'm reasonably attractive (this is not false modesty, believe me!) but not hugely so, so that's not it. I don't flirt. What should I be doing to maintain and build my professional networks while avoiding this situation in the future?

All tips much appreciated. I know this seems a little "oooh, poor me" but I'm so frustrated and don't want to insert awkwardness into my professional relationships when I brush off any advances.

OP posts:
roasted · 04/10/2016 23:41

I don't know what the answer is OP, but I sympathise.

Thought I'd made a good contact at an event, swapped business cards, saw him again at another event - then I was bombarded with inappropriate messages.

I don't think it matters how professional you are, it's just sometimes really hard being a woman and networking.

crossparsley · 04/10/2016 23:54

When I was in my 20s/early 30s this sometimes happened to me and I'm no bombshell. It was always older, married, and not very attractive men. I always relied on the fact that I did not fancy them in the slightest to keep me safe through the wine. Once it was "lunch" which was 3 bottles of wine, no food, and "I don't love my wife" - really? Lovely office colleagues did send me home in a taxi after my surreal lunch with all the booze.

Not fancying someone is enough, or should be enough. If it's not, report.

RingOfFire79 · 05/10/2016 07:01

Thanks all, some great tips and I really appreciate those who have taken the time to share experiences and give advice :)

As for the cigars bit, bbcessex, you can still have them on e.g. the rooftop at the Boisdale (which has a cigar menu) or at some of the Mayfair hotels' cigar gardens etc.

OP posts:
RingOfFire79 · 05/10/2016 07:03

Haha Laquila, just seen your post :) - it is very much that kind of environment but there is literally whisky and cigar-smoking going on quite often.

OP posts:
bbcessex · 05/10/2016 07:18

I feel for you OP..I don't encounter cigars and whisky these days thank god.. In my late 20s it was 'on to a lapdancing club'.. very glad that is deemed as sleaze by both genders now.

ShotsFired · 05/10/2016 07:28

I don't have anything else to ad to the excellent advice already given (may take some of it up myself!), but just posting to say I sympathise, empathise and have also been there (worked in financial services and now IT - both male playgrounds). It sucks.

It's nothing to do with whatever you do, say, wear, act, time of day, type of meeting etc. It's casual everyday sexism in action for the professional woman.

I like to think we are starting to forge a path through it for the next generations, and they will eventually be completely free to network and advance their careers on equal terms.

ChuckBiscuits · 05/10/2016 07:32

OP you can get away with 1-2-1 dinners, but you have to be tactical. Have the dinner early and make sure that you are not drinking [maybe one glass of wine] and get out by 8:30 either to do some work on a project [if away from home] or to get back to your partner [if going home].

Never ever get into any personal talk. As soon as they mention the wife, the kids, anything - change the subject and talk about the next meeting, the next briefing, a project you are working on...or if you can respond with 'Yes my partner/niece is the same, ha ha' and then launch into a completely different topic.

Always look at your watch as the last course comes, and say 'Oh my is that the time, I need to be somewhere else and soon', and then say 'shall I get this one or shall you?' whilst you are finishing your food and then pay or let them, get up, and put your jacket on. Sit down and say something about the main topic of work that you were talking about, shake hands and say 'see you at the next conference/next time/next week, hope the X goes well' and go. But then go to the loo, giving them time to fuck off to the car park, tube, bus, taxi whatever and then leave. If they are still there, nod your head/wave in their direction as you head out the door, even better be on the phone when you do so [even if it is a fake call].

It is a business meeting, not a romantic meal. So it needs to be dealt with in a different manner.

coffeetasteslikeshit · 05/10/2016 08:17

I also have no more advice to add, but just wanted to say that it's happened to me too. More than once, but my favourite (?!) was the guy who invited me to a group dinner, then it turned out to be just the two of us, no dinner, lots of tequila shots and him declaring that I looked like a girl who appreciated honesty and the truth was that he wanted to have sex with me! Err... what? Bizarre behaviour.

Kr1stina · 05/10/2016 08:25

Excellent advice from chuck

myownprivateidaho · 05/10/2016 08:28

No tips but I have experienced similar to a limited extent. Can you find a female mentor and watch how she does it?

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 05/10/2016 08:33

I sympathise, I work in a similar setting.

Is the only boundary that you've set to mention your partner? I found quite quickly that it doesn't seem to work as a deterrent because a lot of people have partners or wives that they'll cheat on. You have to be firm with boundaries!

I'd agree maybe letting up on solo dinners until you've got that in hand will help. I also think it sucks that women have to be so cautious and careful, but it seems it's the only way to be...

RestlessTraveller · 05/10/2016 15:34

I'm sorry but I think you are misinterpreting things. A man and a woman can have a 1-1 dinner and not end up in the sack you know. I used to work in a similar industry and frequently go for network coffee's/drinks/dinner with men and nothing ever happened. If I'd refused I wouldn'5 have come across half the opportunities I did. Not every man wants to get into your knickers no matter how attractive you are.

Tarttlet · 05/10/2016 16:03

Restless - OP does know that she can have a 1-1 dinner with a man and not sleep with him. It's the men she's trying to network with who don't!

RestlessTraveller · 05/10/2016 16:13

That's my point. I simply don't believe that the majority of men she comes across in the business environment are like that. I think she's misreading the signs

LotsOfShoes · 05/10/2016 16:15

Don't know what field you are on but I work in corporate law and must say I haven't really come across 1-2-1 dinners. No one really does it. Lunch, maybe, but rarely. It's usually 3/4 people. I don't think I've ever had a man hit on me either (in a professional context I mean) so I think you do need to be careful what kind of 'vibe' you're giving out as well. Especially if you're drinking and maybe being a bit too flirty or too nice/interested on a personal level.

thatdoesntsurpriseme · 05/10/2016 16:16

Why do you always have to go alone for these dinners? I always go with a colleagues, even if I can only find a junior one to come.

I actually think YABU for doing what is effectively a date with a bloke and then moaning that they see it wrongly. I work in the city in financial services and despite the fact that everyone here does a lot of networking, I don't know anybody who would do a one on one dinner with someone of the opposite sex unless they were already very good friends actually did want to date them.

RestlessTraveller · 05/10/2016 16:19

I also think the notion of women only networking events is ridiculous. Could you imagine a business event that excluded women!

TheSparrowhawk · 05/10/2016 16:23

Restless did you actually read the thread??

DollyBarton · 05/10/2016 16:24

I have been hit on in the past but always laugh, say I'm not interested and make it clear (with a warning look and a joke) I have no interest in married men on top of the fact that I am only interested in my own partner, and move on. I like to leave them vaguely embarrassed that they misjudged the situation but comfortable enough to shake it off and not cause an issue in the workplace. It's always worked so far.

IrenetheQuaint · 05/10/2016 16:29

"I simply don't believe that the majority of men she comes across in the business environment are like that. I think she's misreading the signs"

I doubt it; my experience is that women generally judge these situations accurately. It's certainly possible that some of the men the OP talks about are looking for flirty drinks/bit of a snog rather than full-on sex, but that in itself is pretty grim.

RestlessTraveller · 05/10/2016 16:43

It is certainly possible that SOME of the men are, which is awful but not the majority.

RestlessTraveller · 05/10/2016 16:43

Maybe I'm just too ugly to be hit on!

Theknittinggorilla · 05/10/2016 17:26

In my industry I think perception is more the problem. I don't think the senior men in my job would try it on if I went out for a networking dinner with them. They just wouldn't dream of going for such a meal with me because of how it would look to others. But would with my male colleagues. Annoying and unfair. Ideally of course everything would happen at work. But not the reality.

Laquila · 06/10/2016 09:41

thatdoesntsurpriseme

"I actually think YABU for doing what is effectively a date with a bloke and then moaning that they see it wrongly."

How is it effectively a date? Because of the timing? If it were at lunchtime would that be less efffectively a date? Or what if they went to a restaurant but only drank cappuccinos, not alcohol? Or soft drinks?...don't you think this is a bit ridiculous? Surely if the OP arranges a business event (an office meeting/lunch in Costa/drinks at the Ivy/noodles on a park bench/a PowerPoint presentation in the business suite of the local Hilton etc...) and doesn't call it a date then...it isn't a date?! Am I being foolish, expecting these experienced professional men to be able to work that out??...

FucksSakeSusan · 06/10/2016 10:12

YY to Trills' post.

And also... Depressing that women can't go for dinner with the opposite sex without it being seen as "asking for it" in one way or another. God forbid we are just seen as another professional person rather than, like another poster put it, as a vagina on legs.

I agree that the answer is probably to avoid 1:1 dinners but I am angry that this should have to be the case. It's 2016 FFS!

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