To think you should be able to network with people of opposite gender...

[RingOfFire79]

...and not have them get all odd/flirty/declare their feelings for you after a bit? What do professional women do to network with men without this happening?

I am a twenty-something, unmarried (but in a long-term relationship) woman in a male-dominated industry where most (and the best) networking takes place in bars/over dinner/at evening receptions. I dress (though I like to think this shouldn't matter) conservatively in blouses, pencil skirts, skirt suits - never any cleavage and never anything above the knee. I usually wear flats because heels are too much like hard work for getting between meetings. I (like to think!) I wear tasteful, discreet make-up.

I am gregarious - I have to be, doing what I do - and equally with men and women. My role is pretty nerdy and socialising is not a major part of my job but networking is useful for any career. Since I have started working, men (often senior men) ask me for networking coffees or drinks or lunch. They usually have a wedding ring or mention their wife and children. I always casually drop the fact that I have a partner into the conversation early on. I don't get drunk, though I will have a glass of wine or two. I have tried networking with the few women but they never seem to want to meet up (my closest friends are female so it's not that I'm not a girls' girl).

Sometimes it looks like someone in the industry might become a friend. Then I will go for dinner with them. Regardless of whether it's dinner or drinks or a coffee, there have been only a few instances of a good professional relationship (i.e. where we've met up for a coffee or a drink more than once over, say, the course of 18 months) where the guy hasn't at some stage made a pass at me or sent me a text saying he wishes we could be more than friends/colleagues or made a lunge at the end of the evening. This is over the course of several years. I am bored of it and don't know how to build a good network without interacting with any men. And all my male colleagues go for networking dinners with people.

I suppose I cannot go for dinner with men in my industry. I also no longer go for more than one round of drinks each with them. But I wonder whether I shouldn't just stop doing alcohol (though this is where all the best networking takes place in my profession) with them at all, and stick to coffees and lunches? Is that what other professional women do? Should I reduce the frequency of a coffee/drink? It doesn't seem to happen to my female friends, I think because they work in different industries or aren't too fussed about networking.

I'm reasonably attractive (this is not false modesty, believe me!) but not hugely so, so that's not it. I don't flirt. What should I be doing to maintain and build my professional networks while avoiding this situation in the future?

All tips much appreciated. I know this seems a little "oooh, poor me" but I'm so frustrated and don't want to insert awkwardness into my professional relationships when I brush off any advances.

Bountybarsyuk networking isn't a formal part of my role. I'm not in PR or work in a consultancy where you need to go out and meet clients... but my mentor says that I should spend 15% of my time networking. And I look at the senior people and they do something similar.

Also, I know a few of my male colleagues who got to where they are through having excellent networks e.g. getting offered a job because they knew someone who knew someone at the organisation and put in a good word for them.

My role currently is nerdy but as you get more senior, the % of nerdiness required for the role decreases and the % of having good networks increases.

Btw, thank you lot for this - some really great ideas and your help and tips much appreciated.

I suspect it's the industry you are in, the culture around it and the people who end up working there/getting high up - are the top bosses predominantly male? While young free and single there did seem to be a fair bit of office flirtation but it was quite equal, and not dominated by men or women. Plus it was super PC, unlike the office I worked in up north.

It's totally shit that you're essentially barred from one avenue of career progression because you're a woman

Yup, no dinners/1:1s.

I met DH at a networking event. We stayed in touch for a few weeks, met a couple of times professionally and at the end of a lunch he asked me to dinner. It was really clear to us both that moving it to dinner was a clear shift into the personal sphere.

Networking is very important. Had many lunges when younger but it was a different era. I've now a strong network of male friends and business associates. The friendship builds trust which helps professionally. I don't drink too much and don't do dinner. I also even with close friends mix coffee and drink plans to avoid it all being too date like.

When I was much much younger I used to get this. (Contrary to the beliefs of some of the arsier posters up thread this is nothing to do with the woman's belief that she is super-attractive - I was really quite ordinary looking - but rather everything to do with massive male entitlement in male dominated industries). As a get through the day and avoid confrontation tactic I found simply pretending you hadn't noticed their advances and then firmly changing the subject worked best. But it's still fucking annoying that they feel they can totally overstep the boundaries of what's professional behaviour just because they want to wave their dicks around.

I have to say that I agree with Millie I don't drink at professional events.

I think the problem might be that you're meeting people in informal settings 1-2-1. As a woman near the top of the tree in banking, that's something I was told was a huge no no. You need to make these networking sessions group events. If you're very senior why not arrange 'working lunches' instead of meetings, or host a few key senior people (and their families) at a BBQ? You could host workshops at work where you invite a few different people (you've never met) and get their views on an idea or the team or the organisation. Alternatively you could join Toastmasters or another networking club (there are some great ones just for women if that's what you prefer - I'm in Women in Banking) and meet people in a formal setting.

There are plenty of great ways we women can network.

This is really helpful - and it's so good to hear other people's stories of how they deal(t) with it. And I agree, Sparrowhawk, it is infuriating.

ShastaBeast yes, the top bosses are basically all male. Quite a few of them are surrounded by rumours of mistresses galore. There are so few really senior women (perhaps they got fed up of the arrogant idiots!).

I think the time of day is key - I meet up occasionally with a man who I need to network with from a work perspective I know he is interested in me beyond that - I'm not
We now meet for coffee before going to something together, sometimes even breakfast
If together later in the day or at a whole day event I just make sure I invite others to join us for lunch say
I don't drink alcohol at work occasions - always driving anyway
I tend to only meet female colleagues after work and even then it's only for coffee

I think you are confusing networking with dating. I do plenty of networking, however I don't got for dinners for two with married men.
That seems to be where you are going wrong

Just to add: do you use LinkedIn actively? I.e. Do you message/call a few key contacts on a regular/semi-regular basis, ask for introductions etc? This is something I learned whilst consulting and is a great way of making and keeping high quality connections.

Yes, user, because two men having dinner are networking but because women are basically vaginas on legs any dinner between a man and a woman has to be about sex

FleurThomas those are some great ideas, thank you. I'm not very senior (though I would like to be, one day!) but the idea of working lunches is particularly appealing and I think I might have enough sway in some situations to be able to make that happen. Toastmasters has been mentioned before, so shall do some more research into that.

IME, 2 men having dinner are not networking either.

I agree with the posters above about doing dinners in a group and not 1:1. That could be giving them "ideas". Btw, this is just a coping strategy for you, I still think it sucks because no one would bat an eyelid at an entrepreneurial young man organising dinner with whoever was up for it!
Also, a slightly different but maybe along the same lines thing happens to me - I seem to exhibit too much empathy, so fragile men are always having heart to hearts with me about life and their disappointments etc etc. My DH thinks it's nice and I ask insightful questions, and 90% of them aren't trying to get in my pants, but there was a time when I worked in finance when this would keep being a problem.

I also recommend drinking every alternate glass really really slowly - so you're much more in control of your senses.

I do think it strange that you think going for dinner with another person is an appropriate way to get on in your career.
I realise all jobs are different. For example my dh does a lot of collaboration with different people, but the 'networking' happens at conferences they attend, or evening or occasional weekend events that are put on for a group to meet in a more relaxed atmosphere - not private dinners for two - you are clearly sending very mixed messages.

Your experience must be extraordinarily limited then user.

BackforGood - in my industry if I didn't do evening networking, including 1 on 1 dinners, my business would go bust.

Not at all. Yours must be if you think thats what networking consists of!

I used to work in the computing industry, in my 20s, most (90%) of my colleagues were men.

I must say I never had this problem.

Visited loads of conferences, events etc. At conferences dinner is usually arranged anyway, but outside work I never ever felt the need to go for a dinner-for-two with any individual colleague or customer.

1-2-1 dinner was (is) not part of my networking.

Maybe that's why some men are confused? It is possibly not the norm to go for a 1-2-1 dinner unless it is to negotiate a deal that you can't/won't discuss in office hours (e.g. when you are thinking of leaving to a competitor)

Maybe you are just a bit too enthusiastic about "networking".

maybe your idea of networking does not chime with what others think of as "networking"

I must say, it is not about "vaginas", because my male colleagues would not go for a candle-lit tete-a-tete in twos either , I just don't know anyone who networks like that.

Like I said, it's totally standard in my industry, as it is in many others

Lots of good advice OP. I would echo others who have said don't drink at networking events. It's a shame but I think drinking lowers your boundaries at makes you let things slide when things get flirty when you should be nipping it in the bud straight away. Definitely no 1:1 dinners either to avoid mixed messages. I used to work in a very male dominated industry and despite everyone knowing I was happily married and despite the fact that i make zero effort with my appearance beyond being clean and tidy I was always having men make passes at me. I even had men declaring they were secretly in love with me when I had barely passed the time of day with them. It's frustrating but you need to always be on your guard.

Know what you mean. I've had this too especially when I was younger..Avoid 1:1. Leave early. Always be professional. In fact avoid networking as much as possible. Try to find other ways to make your mark. I gather Teresa May was never a big one for networking and she seems to have done alright