to give up breastfeeding after 4 days?

[HeldTogetherByGafferTape]

I had my first baby on Wednesday morning. A little girl. 8’10 was her birth weight and she’s lost a pound since then. She’s amazing.

The birth was a little more traumatic than I’d hoped. 2 day induction, emergency C-section where the epidural didn’t fully work, followed by further complications to my own health which kept me completely bed bound and involved various fairly invasive procedures for a few days.

The midwife came to the house this morning and said that everything looks good, apart from the weight loss which we need to keep an eye on, but as the day has worn on I’m starting to worry that something is really wrong.

I’m trying to breastfeed. It didn’t get off on the best foot due to my own health complications (couldn’t sit up to feed) but she seemed comforted when sucking, and the hospital raised no concerns when they watched me. However after a day of trying and failing to feed her today at home I’m at my wits end. She’s only had one nappy today (wee + poo), she’s been crying a lot and her wee voice has gone all croaky - does this mean she’d dehydrated?

I thought the problem was that my milk just hadn’t come in yet, but have just confirmed that it has by expressing a little. So I think the problem is my technique and her latch.

Baby sucks fine - she loves it in fact, she wants to suck all day and all night. I think her latch is wrong and as a result my nipples are so painful that I want to smack my head off the wall as she gets on. I know this is wrong for a start. She sucks a lot, but doesn’t swallow. She ‘feeds’(sucks) for a only a few minutes before she dozes off which isn’t right either. After a very quick 5 min snooze she wakes again and immediately starts sucking her hands/crying for food again, so something isn’t working.

She’s been up all night for the past 2 nights (and I mean literally all night without at break). I probably tried to get her in her cot 40 times. She’d suck, doze off, and wake again as soon as I tried to move her). I thought this was just newborn stuff, but I’m starting to really worry she’s really dehydrated or Im making her really sick dilly dallying around trying to get her to eat.

When I look at her latch, and compare it to breastfeeding videos on the internet, the only difference I can see is the her bottom jaw is not open wide enough, and instead is clamped around the bottom of the nipple, but no amount of coaxing, reshifting, taking her off and putting her on again, repositions (football, cross cradle, laid back) or pushing her back in towards me will convince her to open wider.

Complicating the issue is that I can’t stop crying. Literally can’t stop. I think it’s hormones with my milk coming in, but it’s clouding my judgement and I’m winding myself into a frenzy not knowing what to do. I’m also sleep deprived - she wont settle anywhere but on my chest, she is either there or on my nipple we tried earlier to have a little enforced break so I could have a nap but her voice got so harsh and croaky with crying that even my ultra-positive husband had to bring her through to me to calm her on my chapped nipple. On top of this I’m also bleeding a lot, my C wound is painful, and side effects from the other complications are giving me vertigo, so Im not feeling great. I also have this growing idea that Im going to accidentally kill the baby either by not waking up if she’s in trouble, standing up and forgetting she’s on my knee or now through this. I am aware that this is unlikely and that it’s really out of character for me to think like this (suggesting hormones might be going wild and potentially a dose of baby blues are at play too).

The question is though, what should I do?

Should I give her some formula in the next hour? Just to make sure she has something in her tum? I don’t even know how to make it, but I could learn quick. Would this mean game over for breastfeeding? Why are you not meant to mix the two so early on when trying to establish breastfeeding.

Should I try to express and bottle feed. Not sure how well this would go with the painful nips but happy to give anything a try. Again might this interfere with breastfeeding

Should I try a few more breastfeeding things to see if I can improve her latch? My nipples really are on another planet of pain (and I say this after a week of quite a lot of extreme pain) but I’m up for trying.

My husband is calling the hospital now? Have I making her ill by delaying?

Any advice would be so much appreciated. It sounds so self indulgent but I feel like such a failure as a mum already. I just want to do what's right by the wee sausage, and I don't know what that is.

YANBU & don't let everyone on here convince you to carry on just because they did. Your welfare is vital to the baby - you need to be in a good physical and mental state. It's not for everyone & don't feel guilty if you decide to bottle feed.

I absolutely cannot, really really cannot, thank you all enough.

Tried pumping - we have a Medela and got about a teaspoon between both breasts after about half an hour. It was still quite yellowy. So when the midwife got me to hand express this morning, and thought milk had come in, it looks like it was a bit of a red herring. Also looks like she was getting little bits. Enough to keep her going back for more, but not enough.

Read through all the advice here and kindness of people sharing their own experiences and gave her some formula. She's like a new baby! She's so happy and content and I am overwhelmingly elated with relief. Still crying! But that's OK.

Thank you! Thanks for keeping me sane tonight. The overnight shift is looking a lot more doable! Even if she won't sleep in the cot, at least I can make her happy and calm.

I think I'll try to pump each time I feed her for the next day and see where we get to with that, and lactation expert on Monday.

I'm so grateful to you all!! And since I have no milk yet I might even have a glass of wine.

No one tells you how bloody hand it is to start with. Try formula if you want and it doesn't need to mean the end of bf. Sounds very similar to my story and I did manage to carry on after the tough first week, but only you can make the decision. Can your midwife or a breastfeeding support come and visit tomorrow?

Cross post. Enjoy that glass of wine. So glad you are feeling better. You could have milk in soon then at least she won't have to suck so hard. Good luck

Have just rtft and it just goes to show how different every baby is.
I've had 2 babies. DC1 was a emcs after failed induction. I feel like I could have written your post back then. I gave in on day 3 and supplemented with formula due to painful nipples (though those two words cannot express the enormity of that pain, and I was using lansinoh). It gave my nipples a break but they still remained painful for quite a while after. Day 6 we got back to exclusively breast feeding and I think it was just because I was having a more positive day. Then went on to bf until 13 months.
We also could put him down. Until my mum and a midwife showed me how to swaddled him. Made such a difference for us. Also was shown by the midwife how to do the rugby ball position. So laying on a cushion or pillow so they're higher up and tucked under your armpit head out to the front so you're face to face.
Second DC is 5 weeks old after an elcs. Same problem with painful nipples but i powered through this time despite me crying with every feed and her occasionally looking like a vampire with blood round her mouth from my poor decimated nipples. Got to the bit where my milk had come in but then took another couple of days for her to get her latch right and there was a lot of starting and stopping but we got there.

So my advice, until you speak to a professional is give the rugby ball position a try, lansinoh nipple cream, give swaddling a go, when the midwife comes out in the next couple of days ask her to watch you feed, remember the hormones will go eventually and ask for other people's lists of stupid things they cried at because of them (can't remember actually not crying at anything or everything those few days), Google the size of a baby's stomach as this will make you feel better, and just remember that it will all get better very quickly cos there's no way anyone would ever have babies if it were this bad for very long! And much as it doesn't feel like it, you do know best as you're a mum now, just do what's right for you!

And bollocks to anyone who says that breastfeeding doesn't hurt and if it does you're not doing it right. It does hurt. But it gets better and better and easier, it just takes a while.

Enjoy your wine! I had bubbly (which in retrospect was a mistake, seemed to make the baby very tummy achey).

Just to be aware, as you had a C-section, watch out for engorgement. All the fluids they pump into you seem to make it more likely you get engorged when your milk finally comes in - I got it both times. The solution is cabbage leaves (really!) and expressing to take the edge off it. Some people find warmth (midwives recommend hot baths) helps, but I found it only made it worse, so be a bit careful.

If that does happen, you may find the baby can't latch because your breasts are so full, but kellymom has the solution for that (and many other things). It's annoying, because you go from not enough milk to so much the baby can't latch / is choking on it, but it does signal the start of being able to get everything sorted.

Maybe consider if she might have thrush which is affecting the latch. If your nips hurt a lot when touching your clothes then that is likely to be thrush and is easily treated. That would make her do the partial latch.

I tried lansinoh and it put ds right off, so if you try that and it seems to make things worse, just ditch it.

Good luck there. I was just the same. It was really awful. I got through it and breasfed 'till ds was 4 (years)

Keep badgering the midwife and health visitor and lactation consultant (and us!).

OP, I'm so pleased you came back and updated with good news!

Days 3/4 PP are brutal wrt hormones and the crying!
Breastfeeding is hard work. Especially after a C section.
Well done on feeding your baby!

You sound like you're doing a fantastic job. Hope you and baby get some sleep and you're able to re-evaluate things in the morning.

I'm so pleased you are feeling better as long as your little baby is getting milk it doesn't matter where it's coming front. Don't feel guilty it took ages for my milk supply to come in and I had to do formula top ups from the start. I found at the end of the day with expressing I hardly got any milk but first thing in the morning was different I got loads then. Good luck and congratulations. Enjoy your new baby. Let your partner give you bubba a bottle and have a little sleep. 💐

Have not read all the thread but call an IBCLC first thing and they might come out tomorrow, they will help you with everything xxx

Enjoy your wine you deserve it, try to put her to the breast as much as possible this will help bring your milk in. This does happen with c section. It took 5 days for me I had forceps. I had to top up but got baby off the top,ups fairly quickly and still ebf at 7 months so don't worry. IBCLC are the best x

Thanks for letting us know op - so happy for you! If you or your husband are giving the baby a bottle then tickle baby's top lip with it and allow baby to draw the teat in rather than place it in yourself iyswim? Good idea to pump every 3 hours and offer baby whatever you get, I was told if below 5ml then give in a syringe and if above then in a bottle (not sure why). Once baby has had your milk if still hungry then give formula and not the other way around X

Trust your instincts as a mummy, there are many options. Expressing, combination, formula. Etc.
But if want to carry on bf, try to find a local bf cafe or support group.
Good luck and congratulations on the new baby

If you do want to get breastfeeding established, let baby feed and sleep on you whenever they want. Don't listen to anyone who tells you to feed for X minutes then stop. Women vary in how much milk they can store so some have to feed more often and for longer than others. At this stage, any time spent at the breast will help build your supply, even if they're not actually getting anything. And all that comfort is exactly what baby needs.

If you're desperate to get baby down asleep, wait for 10-20mins after they fall asleep feeding and check if they have floppy arms- hold an arm up and if it drops down totally limp you've got much more hope of putting baby down without waking! And rope other people in to hold your sleeping baby.

It is so hard in the first few weeks but just trusting that it's normal and you're not doing anything wrong is the most important thing. It's so strange how we seem to be shielded from the reality of having a newborn until we have to deal with it ourselves, it is shockingly difficult!! But it gets so much better. Good luck! Oh another vote for a sleepyhead- amazing invention!

You have my fullest sympathies for what you've been through. BF can be very difficult especially at the beginning. I wouldn't worry if you have to give her some formula, you can still carry on breastfeeding. Also don't be hard on yourself either if you decide to stop. Yes to nipple cream!

I haven't rtft but just to say you're doing brilliantly! I agree with those who say adding in some formula now and using nipple shields may make all the difference. Having spent time professionally and personally in NICUs with paediatricians and SALT specialists my understanding is that evidence for nipple/teat confusion is pretty poor and much of the warnings about nipple shields comes from decades ago when they were big rubber things that covered half the breast, not the thin silicone ones we have now. Do what is right for you as a family.

oops sorry just read that you gave her some formula. That's great it's helped. I hope things get easier for you.

I'm so glad you came back to update. I completely remember seeing that first look of contentment on DD's face after nearly a week and realising what had been missing. You're doing brilliantly, and whatever happens in the next few days, and however you end up feeding, you'll still be doing brilliantly. All the very best to you and your little family.

I'm so glad you and your DD are both feeling happier now enjoy the wine and hope you get some sleep!

Hi OP, really sorry you're having such a rough time of it. You are in the eye of the storm right now and it will definitely get better, honest!

I had an emcs and ds spent his first night in scbu due to an infection. He was tube fed formula initially as they were worried about his blood sugars. I was on Iv antibiotics and almost bed bound. We had minimal skin to skin for the first 24 hours, I couldn't even attempt to feed him.

My milk took ages to properly come in and due to ds infection they didn't want to risk waiting for this to happen so I was encouraged to give formula but persevere with bf.

Ds would initially just latch on to my breast but refused to suck! With lots of encouragement he would suck a couple of times then just stop.

The routine I ended up following was this:

1. put ds to the breast to attempt a feed;
2. top up ds formula using bottle;
3. use pump to express;
4. repeat every three hours.

The pump stimulated my milk to come in and eventually I was pumping enough milk for the top up feeds to be ebm.

After about a week/8 days once my milk was properly in ds got the hang of feeding from the breast and we were able to drop the top ups. We're now 13 weeks in and ds is exclusively breastfed with no real problems. I was sure being pretty much bottle fed for a week would put pay to breastfeeding but that absolutely wasn't the case for me.

Once your milk is properly in then you can drop the top ups a bit for a while if you want to encourage baby back to the breast. The consultant told me to try topping up only every 12 hours for a day or so and see how we got on, ds got a bit hungrier and persevered a bit longer at the breast, as milk was in he was rewarded and he started to get the hang of it!

You have had a rough time physically and you will still be in pain so do what you need to do. There is a lot of talk of nipple confusion but I've met lots of people who successfully fed from both bottle and breast from very early on and no-one who has experienced nipple confusion from using a bottle early. I'm not saying it can't happen but I'm not sure it's as likely as we are often led to believe. Anyway, needs must at the end of the day!

If you decide to persevere then I'd suggest seeing if you can borrow a hospital grade pump for a few weeks (most of the breastfeeding clinic places will lend them out) it reduces the time you need to spend pumping and the medela has a special setting designed to encourage milk production. You can buy milk bags to pump into to avoid the faff of having enough sterile recepticles.

Lanisoh is your friend so give that a go. I think sometimes the baby can get so hungry that they suck so frantically at the nipples that they get more and more sore and it just makes everything worse! Hopefully a bit of topping up will make everyone feel a bit more relaxed and perhaps improve this a bit.

You are doing a great job. Get as much real life support as you can and whatever happens feeding wise (formula or bf) it will all work out ok in the end and baby will be absolutely fine.

Good luck OP! Xx

Have you tried a different hold? If you are large breasted you could try rugby hold. Life saver for me

Everything you described, it's all very familiar to me. I had raw skin in my nipples for two weeks at least. After that, the pain was gone. I managed to breastfeed for two years at the end.

My baby slept on my chest for one month. I know this is against the 'rules' but there was 0 chance of me moving. The c section 'helped' with that.

I truly believe that because the nipple has sensitive skin and it's not used (for most people) to the strong suction the baby has to use to get his/her milk, it causes pain. It does not mean a bad latch.

I also know some people are lucky and do not have that pain. But I also think the method of delivery has an impact on how you feel. And you had a difficult time.

I think you should do what you feel it's best. You can choose to persevere, you can do mixed feeding or you can do only formula.

All the best

Hope you are doing ok today OP. I remember what it was like to have had a c-section and need to rest and recover afterwards but suddenly have a little baby needing you 24 hours a day. I found it such a shock, it does take a while to get used to. My DD was 8 pounds 13, biggest baby on the ward. First night she cried and cried and kept everyone awake, I kept trying to feed her and my nibbles got so cracked, I had bruised boobs, it was so painful. We went home and she just didn't seem satisfied with what I was producing so my husband topped her up with those ready made bottles of formula which worked, and gave me a break. It took about 2 weeks for my milk to really come in properly so we topped up till then. I'm still breast feeding her now at nearly 2 years so it didn't make any difference. Definitely recommend nibble balm, it seemed to work miracles between feeds. And keep your pain meds topped up, I took paracetamol and ibuprofen religiously and that really helped manage the pain. Write everything down as we were so tired we couldn't remember anything! And feed lying down if you can, I thought I had to sit up to feed her until it clicked that I didn't need to. Much easier to rest and snooze it was can. And if you're sitting down feeding make sure you have a drink, snacks and tv remote to hand before you start, I often got stuck not wanting to move when she'd fallen asleep on me (I gave up trying to put her in Moses basket, it just woke her up). And if you need to give formula don't feel bad, just do what you need to do to feed your baby. Good luck, it does get easier, honestly.

This is more normal that you would ever realise. If you are near me in Cambridge I would be happy to pop by and offer reassurance.

PS YY to the odd FF combined with pumping. In the olden days you would have been able to give her to a sister to feed while your milk came in. These days we use a bit of FF to achieve the same effect,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but if their fontanelle is depressed, that's how you know they are really dehydrated (i.e. go back to the hospital she was born in for advice). But it sounds to me like you have things under control.