to give up breastfeeding after 4 days?

[HeldTogetherByGafferTape]

I had my first baby on Wednesday morning. A little girl. 8’10 was her birth weight and she’s lost a pound since then. She’s amazing.

The birth was a little more traumatic than I’d hoped. 2 day induction, emergency C-section where the epidural didn’t fully work, followed by further complications to my own health which kept me completely bed bound and involved various fairly invasive procedures for a few days.

The midwife came to the house this morning and said that everything looks good, apart from the weight loss which we need to keep an eye on, but as the day has worn on I’m starting to worry that something is really wrong.

I’m trying to breastfeed. It didn’t get off on the best foot due to my own health complications (couldn’t sit up to feed) but she seemed comforted when sucking, and the hospital raised no concerns when they watched me. However after a day of trying and failing to feed her today at home I’m at my wits end. She’s only had one nappy today (wee + poo), she’s been crying a lot and her wee voice has gone all croaky - does this mean she’d dehydrated?

I thought the problem was that my milk just hadn’t come in yet, but have just confirmed that it has by expressing a little. So I think the problem is my technique and her latch.

Baby sucks fine - she loves it in fact, she wants to suck all day and all night. I think her latch is wrong and as a result my nipples are so painful that I want to smack my head off the wall as she gets on. I know this is wrong for a start. She sucks a lot, but doesn’t swallow. She ‘feeds’(sucks) for a only a few minutes before she dozes off which isn’t right either. After a very quick 5 min snooze she wakes again and immediately starts sucking her hands/crying for food again, so something isn’t working.

She’s been up all night for the past 2 nights (and I mean literally all night without at break). I probably tried to get her in her cot 40 times. She’d suck, doze off, and wake again as soon as I tried to move her). I thought this was just newborn stuff, but I’m starting to really worry she’s really dehydrated or Im making her really sick dilly dallying around trying to get her to eat.

When I look at her latch, and compare it to breastfeeding videos on the internet, the only difference I can see is the her bottom jaw is not open wide enough, and instead is clamped around the bottom of the nipple, but no amount of coaxing, reshifting, taking her off and putting her on again, repositions (football, cross cradle, laid back) or pushing her back in towards me will convince her to open wider.

Complicating the issue is that I can’t stop crying. Literally can’t stop. I think it’s hormones with my milk coming in, but it’s clouding my judgement and I’m winding myself into a frenzy not knowing what to do. I’m also sleep deprived - she wont settle anywhere but on my chest, she is either there or on my nipple we tried earlier to have a little enforced break so I could have a nap but her voice got so harsh and croaky with crying that even my ultra-positive husband had to bring her through to me to calm her on my chapped nipple. On top of this I’m also bleeding a lot, my C wound is painful, and side effects from the other complications are giving me vertigo, so Im not feeling great. I also have this growing idea that Im going to accidentally kill the baby either by not waking up if she’s in trouble, standing up and forgetting she’s on my knee or now through this. I am aware that this is unlikely and that it’s really out of character for me to think like this (suggesting hormones might be going wild and potentially a dose of baby blues are at play too).

The question is though, what should I do?

Should I give her some formula in the next hour? Just to make sure she has something in her tum? I don’t even know how to make it, but I could learn quick. Would this mean game over for breastfeeding? Why are you not meant to mix the two so early on when trying to establish breastfeeding.

Should I try to express and bottle feed. Not sure how well this would go with the painful nips but happy to give anything a try. Again might this interfere with breastfeeding

Should I try a few more breastfeeding things to see if I can improve her latch? My nipples really are on another planet of pain (and I say this after a week of quite a lot of extreme pain) but I’m up for trying.

My husband is calling the hospital now? Have I making her ill by delaying?

Any advice would be so much appreciated. It sounds so self indulgent but I feel like such a failure as a mum already. I just want to do what's right by the wee sausage, and I don't know what that is.

Also agree don't try to put her in her cot. Get a sleepyhead or similar and have her in bed between you and DH. She will feel snug and safe and you won't have to be scared of rolling onto her. We got ours (Amazon Prime again!) after one night of trying unsuccessfully to get her to sleep in a Moses basket. Still use it in her cot now at 8 months!

I know a lot of people think formula is terrible but during our second night in hospital, my son was screaming and couldn't latch. I asked for formula to give him, he drank less than an ounce and immediately looked happy. I cried with relief after previously sobbing half the night trying to feed him.

Sending you massive un-mumsnetty hugs, OP. I had an EMCS on the back of a long and challenging labour so really feel for you. I think you should ring the hospital for advice as you have dehydration concerns to be honest.

If you want to stick with breastfeeding, the midwives, NCT, La Leche should all be helping you. If you want to give a bottle of formula to get some sleep and make you feel less worried about dehydration, it's not going to ruin breastfeeding. If you feel breastfeeding just isn't for you, there's no shame in that.

FWIW breastfeeding never worked for me, and DD has been mainly formula fed. I can honestly say we have an amazing bond, she's developing well, and is a happy little sausage. I was putting far too much pressure on myself to breastfeed after a difficult time of it during delivery. After I started to accept that I wasn't going to breastfeed I started to enjoy my baby a heck of a lot more. I'm not saying don't breastfeed, obviously it's great if you can get feeding established (and I still have days where I wish we had), but it's not the be all and end all!

My dh convinced me to call the birthing centre a few days after the birth after the baby had screamed all night. I thought it was just newborn assholery but turns out the baby was dehydrated! The midwives were amazing, hooked me up to a double breast pump, fed the baby my milk with a cup and taught us both to latch. If you know of a quiet birthing centre in your area call them even if you didn't give birth there. USE THE POST NATAL EMERGENCY NUMBERS you have been given. Feeding issues are a problem and they won't be annoyed with you for calling. Best of luck. We breastfed exclusively for six months and then slowly tapered and weaned at 18 months.

Oh and I was warned that four days is a very weepy day as the hormone changes make you feel all at sea. Hang in there!

for you OP. Day 4 with my DS was the longest day of my life. Milk hadn't come in yet, baby just screamed and screamed. I also had 2 days induction and EMCS (although by the sounds of it a bit more straightforward than your experience), had had no sleep for days and was utterly destroyed.

When it got really unbearable (2am ish) I ended up giving him a couple of mls of formula, via a syringe rather than a bottle - as my milk wasn't in, I didn't want to give too much and overfill his tummy. I was worried he was getting dehydrated, but he probably wasn't. He settled straight away and fell asleep, we both got a couple of hours of much needed rest. It was absolutely the best thing to do in the circumstances, and didn't prevent me breastfeeding afterwards or affect supply.

Rampant anxiety post birth is entirely normal by the way. Horrible, but normal. Post natal depression has a less publicised cousin, post natal anxiety - intrusive anxious thoughts are a common symptom, so keep an eye on this and be kind to yourself. You are a wonderful mother and you are doing a fantastic job. Remember to look after yourself, eat and keep your fluids up.

Also, if you are worried remember you can absolutely call the midwifes and ask them to come round. Has baby been checked for tongue tie?

Little publicised fact is the first week with a newborn is often horribly horribly difficult. It gets much, much, much easier as time goes on.

Side note - as above, day four is awful. I cried for two hours because the woman at the burger stand put my sausages in the wrong bun and didn't butter my bread (had sent DH out for a sandwich).

Lots of good advice here. Just to reiterate: la leche league helpline is amazing. Please do call.

Call your midwife and see if someone can come round. You need to see someone face to face.

Crying on day 3-6 is very normal in my experience. I was a weepy mess last week (I have a 2wk old baby).

Use nipple shields and get lansinoh. Don't worry about feeding a bit of formula, especially if you're feeding that much, you'll be getting the supply up still. Try feeding formula by syringe, drop by drop in the corner of baby's mouth.

You are trying so hard, you've been through a LOT. Remember this!
x

You poor thing it sounds like you've been through a lot.

I think for yourself and your new baby you should give her a bottle for the next day at least. Formula will absolutely not harm her. In between bottles/sleeps and some rest for you then personally I would still encourage her to latch and feed/suckle.

If she has only had 1 wet nappy in a 12hr period then she is dehydrated.

A lot of what you are going through is almost identical for how things were with my first born. I gave her a bottle several times when she was about the same age. It did not affect breastfeeding and I fed her exclusively after the day or two of bottles/formula for over 9months.

Sounds like you need some rest and let your hubby take over for 24hours,

My experience - tell visitors to bugger off in the first week as it just adds to the stress.
Pumping by hand was the only time bf really caused me problems - pain and thrush, I wouldn't recommend going straight to that with already painful nips. :(
Do other mums in your area run a community breast feeding support? Can get free one on one help from that too. Check with local children's centre?

I would absolutely give the baby some formula at this stage, failing that express some milk/express some milk just to keep supply up (get a very good heavy duty electric pump not a Boots cheapie), get some rest, feel reassured baby is getting hydration and nutrition, and then concentrate on correcting latch.

Ds had his lower lip tucked in when he fed, a breastfeeding counsellor showed me 8 weeks in (8 weeks of agony!!!!) that all I needed to do was put my little finger in and make sure his lips rolled out rather than in. He was sucking me like a straw rather than "milking" the breast properly.

I also had an casesarian with both births and second time with twinsmilk did not come in properly for several days, when it did I was in floods of tears and incredibly emotional, and baby (s) were completely dehydrated despite midwives endlessly checking us all before that, they can get it wrong, and think it is working fine when it just isn't.

I went on to breastfeed for several months and just under two years for second babies. Formula and mixed feeding did not prevent me breastfeeding and I only wish the first time round I had been alerted to the poor latch earlier. Second time I wish the nurses had noticed my milk had not come in

Definitely express. I had the same problem it was so painful. Expressing isn't painful so you will be ok. Give it to her in a bottle to give you boobs a great. A little bit of combined feeding won't hurt either until she get the hang of it. I combined fed for 6 months. Always have formula bottle at night or first mornknn feed so daddy could do it and I could get a bit more sleep. Poor you. I know how you feel I cried for two weeks. It will get better. Use lansinoh nipple cream after every feed. It helps. Good luck and don't be so hard on yourself. Breast feeding is far harder than people think. In my area there is a breast feeding team they come out and what you feed and give you tips to help. You should have one in your area. Or health visitor may be able to help. 💐

Oh yes and second baby almost certainly had tongue tie, please get this checked it makes such a difference, they literally cannot put their tongue in the right position to properly feed, hence the straw sucking technique. To start with a certain amount of milk goes in, just because there is lots at the beginning when your milk comes in, but slowly the supply dwindles over next few weeks, and the pain of feeding increases. I think a lot of midwives just want to sign you off as breastfeeding when you leave the hospital and over next week, and the tick box does not include giving formula or further detailed intervention to HELP you breastfeed over next few months.

Oh gosh you poor poor thing, it's so hard isn't it. I was like this with my first and I didn't even have a C section. I was induced though and I don't think my body made enough milk for the first few days. I was up all night too, trying to feed him or squeezing my nipples frantically and trying to hand express. I used to sit there sobbing and hand expressing and would get a couple of millilitres in about half an hour and attempt to syringe that into his mouth. I remember the midwives prising him off me at about 2 or 3 days and feeding him formula from a cup while I wept at what a failure I was...! Anyway once I got home a lovely breastfeeding support lady come round and sat with me patiently while I tried to latch him on (he also used to fall asleep after a few sucks - turned out he had jaundice). I expressed with a medula pump, fed him as much as I could and topped up with formula in those first weeks. It was horrendous, I cried all the time! BUT, with the help of the breastfeeding counsellor and my son's recovery from the jaundice, and me getting a little rest, eventually it clicked and I ended up breastfeeding him for 19 months. Nipple shields and lansinoh helped in the early days too. So it is hard. You sound like you're doing an amazing job. Stick with it if you want to breastfeed, and a little formula definitely doesn't have to mean the end of breastfeeding if you don't want it to. And also if you do decide to formula feed and give up breastfeeding you will NOT be a failure and your baby will be fine! You are obviously a very loving mummy, they comes across in your post, and your little girl is very lucky to have you whichever way you end up feeding her!

Also recommend skin to skin and as little trying to settle baby in cot as possible... But try to remember to feed every 2 to 3 hours even if baby appears to be conked out, much better than leaving enormous gaps. Try to avoid lots of visitors too at this stage, FATAL. Unless they want to bring you meals, be short and cheerful and otherwise leave you in peace and not make any comments.

National breastfeeding helpline: 0300 100 0212 9:30am-9:30pm

They are awesome. Get your DH/dp to ring if you can't stop crying long enough and then hand you the phone. They are totally used to people sobbing down the phone!

Day 4 is hormone soup. Sending hugs.

It does sound like baby isn't latching quite right. This could be technique or a tongue tie. Do you have a breastfeeding clinic nearby? Could you afford a private Lactation consultant? If someone experienced can watch you feed they can help you. In the meantime try the "exaggerated latch" technique and "breast compressions" to increase milk transfer, Dr jack Newman has YouTube videos on these.

When your milk comes in your breasts will be as hard as rock and as big as beach balls! If that hasn't happened yet but you are getting what looks like mature milk it is probably just about to happen. Keep on feeding baby as much as possible. Also stay hydrated yourself.

I'm worried that baby isn't weeing much.
Are there other signs of dehydration such as dry skin, dry mouth, sunken soft spot on head, unusually sleepy? If so you do need to get more milk into her, preferably your breast milk and preferably from your breast. If not,
Can you hand express some of your milk into a cup/ syringe ideally or a bottle and feed it to her?
Giving some formula doesn't mean the end of breastfeeding. It would be better to give it via a syringe/ cup than bottle at this age. If you want to continue breastfeeding make sure you keep putting baby to the breast, get real life assessment of latch and be careful to not let the formula use scale up accidentally.

I was in your position and also my ds had jaundice.

I opted for bottle feeding after wrestling with my conscience quite a bit. At first I beat myself up about it (baby blues?) But looking back it was the best thing to do for ME and MY BABY. He thrived and he's 2 years old and we have an amazing bond

www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=exaggerated%20deep%20latch

an 'exaggerated latch' helped me when my nipple were so sore. Good luck to you OP, and congratulations on your lovely baby.

Oh yes I agree with pp, on day 4 I literally cried all day. I had nightmares every night (for a full 2 weeks) that I had fallen asleep with the baby and he was smothered in the covers, I would wake up in a blind panic. On day 4 I had put the baby in the Moses basket in the living room and gone to get a glass of water (first time he had been left in a room himself for even a minute). My husband went into the room then came into the kitchen and asked how the baby had ended up on the couch as an ill advised joke I completely broke down, I thought in my tiredness I had left him on the couch and had imagined placing him in the basket.... What I mean by my waffling is don't make any long term decisions today. Just relax, be kind to yourself and give yourself permission to feed the baby some formula. You will feel so much better tomorrow

I was in a similar position and had the added complication that dd was in SCBU due to initial breathing concerns, dd was mixed fed as a necessity (she was being tube fed for a few days) but I wanted to say that I was able to continue to mix feed until dd was about 10 weeks. After 10 weeks I ditched the formula and just bf until she was 5-6 months and then reintroduced the bottle as was going back to work.

Mix feeding is sometimes the best way to go and in mind better than giving up completely, I think there is a lot of scare mongering that goes with bfing around the issue of mix feeding but for me anyway it was a positive experience.

Not sure if anyone else has said this as I haven't RTFT but wanted to say that it's absolutely OK to stop BFing if that's what you want to do. I managed ten days with my second having fed my first for six months. Absolutely beat myself up over it and ruined the early months with unnecessary guilt. Congratulations on your beautiful baby and do what's right for you.

I've just joined mumsnet so that I can add to all the good wishes and advice you've already received. I really struggled with DD1 when first bf but she was my only one at the time and I was able to get through the sheer bloody agony of the first week or so. Yes lansinoh does help, in fact I was given mamma mio 'keep calm nipple balm' which I thought was the best thing ever but neither took the pain away, it really just took time and a lot of hand holding by DH (literal and metaphorical). With DD2 I was prepared for the pain but developed a v bad case of mastitis after about a week (it eventually took 3 lots of antibiotics and 3 weeks to clear) and ended up bottle feeding her. I beat myself up such a lot at the time, a particularly zealous bf midwife didn't help but DD2 is now 6 months and I know I did the right thing at the time. You will do the best for your baby because you care so much, get as much help and support as you can but remember you are only human and it matters to your baby that you are as well as possible, if that means formula feeding then do not feel guilty, you can only do your best. I hope this post makes sense, having never written one before I'm a bit nervous but I felt so similar to you after both babies I wanted to help and to tell you that it will get better x

Also meant to say I gave up totally on the Moses basket/ cot after about a week after constantly trying to get him to settle there. He just wanted to be with me. We both slept better and he fed better when I gave up trying to fight him into sleeping on his own and just took him in with me. You can get a "side car" for the bed (bed nest I think it's called) if you're worried about rolling on her. He co slept with me until I was too heavily pregnant with my second that he had to go in with my husband. He's nearly 5 now and sleeps perfectly happily in his own bed (although my 2.5 year old is still breastfeeding and co sleeping...!). Do whatever works for you, don't listen to midwives/ HV if try tell you you'll "ruin" your baby if you co sleep (that's what I was told).

Please get baby checked for tongue tie. I had what sounds like exactly the same experience. She had an almost complete tongue tie. A simple snip and from then on, no issues and we are still breastfeeding now. But as others have said, formula doesn't hurt if you feel she is hungry and you are struggling. Do what you need to do so you are both happy