To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

Frusso, if someone is denied state school as a consequence of their foolishness they might change their mind.

Anti vaxers for no reason are bloody stupid people!

I had my eldest in Australia when we were living there, I liked the system that if you didn't get the jabs you could be refused a school place and your benefits. They also immunise for more things than here in the uk.

When I was leaving to come home 8 babies had died in a WEEK! From whooping cough. All unvaccinated, it was so so sad, one lady recorded her babies final days so people could see how bad it was, and said how much she regretted not getting the jab in pregnancy and when baby was born. The noises the baby was making has haunted me for years

I've had another baby here and we pay privately for my youngest to have the extra jabs my eldest had Like chicken pox.

I do think it should be no vax no school, unless there is a medical reason not to be able to vaccinate.

Gileswithachainsaw Not when your choice could kill other vulnerable people.

Yawn- because it seems from this thread countries where it happens connects vaccinating to benefits

Medical intervention is always choice. Has to be

Actually I'm not sure that's true; there have been a few very notable cases of high courts overruling parents' "choices" about medical treatment (or lack thereof) for their children. Notably was that young boy, Neon I think his name was, whose mother didn't want him to undergo cancer mainstream treatment. (I'm not comparing that to vaxxing by the way.)

When it comes to vaccinations I don't think most of us are suggesting forcing people to vaccinate, just forcing them to recognise that that choice means their child would not be eligible for taxpayer-funded schooling due to the risk presented to others.

"Today 14:05 Adnerb95

threebed

The comparative risks have been known and in the public domain for many years!!

Vaccination - low risk; low herd immunity resulting from low vaccination rates - high risk.

Believe it or not, the Department of Health doesn't spend a lot of money on this for no good reason."

Adner was this supposed to be for me? It doesn't seem connected to anything I've posted

Gosh no mermaid, you must be confusing me with someone else :)

I think what you mean is you wish I was ashamed. But I'm not remotely ashamed. I'm not without social awareness, that's all.

It's a complete cop-out to say those who are at increased risk of a bad reaction can simply skip it and benefit from herd immunity while everyone else must comply if they wish to access basic human rights like education. Why?

Because it disingenuously leap frogs the morally distasteful part of the whole business ; forcing a group of parents to give their children an injection knowing that a small number of them will be seriously harmed. Never mind that others will have their children saved from a disease.

You simply cannot force someone to avail of a medical treatment that will in all probability hurt someone and you cannot justify it by saying that others will be saved or avoid the issue by saying those who are at risk of a reaction are exempt because those kids do not have a helpful yellow label on their foreheads.

Three, living in poverty doesn't mean your mind is closed to education. It's really simple- protect your child and your neighbours from fatal disease. It is so important that your child can't start school without proof it has been vaccinated or proof it is exempt.

scaryteacher that's lovely. I wish more would do it. Its around £10 here approx 12 EUR per year. That's nothing compared to how much you can lose with time off sick or a relative/friend getting very sick.

I'm recovering from an infection right now - ear infection that left the glands in my neck swollen and painful for close to a week - its now spread to my lungs. I've been ill since the start of September, had a 10 day course of antibiotics and its now a rest and wait on GPS advice. I know this is not flu but with flu it is worse than this. Its why I am so cautious. It really knocks me for six to get ill and I have other health issues too. The antibiotics I have to take for chest infections inc after having had the flu screw with my bowel and I already have a chronic bowel condition. I'd rather not get sick and not take them because it takes me 4-6 weeks to get back to 'normal'. Its why I get pushy for people having all their jabs including the flu one!

I know that non-vaxxers would be outside the community and still putting me and others at risk. However, with a no-vax no school policy. the chances of ensuring herd immunity are greater. And the non-vaxers and people at risk like me would be protected by herd immunity. But the non-vaxers wouldn't admit it if course.

Outside school but in the community, I meant to say.

I am with those that say No vaccs No school!!!! selfish arrogant gits people that think of nobody but themselves!

I had mumps before the MMR vaccine was developed. It damaged my hearing in one ear but I was one of the lucky ones because it can do far worse things to men who catch it.

I can't understand why anyone in the Op's class wouldn't vaccinate their child unless there was a strong medical reason.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog You should give vulnerable people the chance to avoid your kids though. If I had a vulnerable relative, or a new baby, I would want to know if there were any not vaccinated kids I knew so I could tell them to stay away for a while. Your freedom to have not vaccinated kids doesn't trump my right to life.

Do you explain that to your kids? That they shouldn't touch new babies and stuff?

What makes me cringe is all these people who say "I've done my own research....". Really? As far as I can tell, unless you are a medic or a statistician with a specialism in then area, you are highly unlikely to be able to read or interpret correctly the results of the clinical trials. Assuming you knew which ones to ask for access to in the first place. It always seems like shorthand for "read some crap on the Internet" to me....

We have a little girl at our school who's dad has just had a bone marrow transplant. It's not a big school and everyone knows that he is very open to infection. Come to the day of the big school trip and one of the children in her class comes in quite obviously sick and throws up everywhere at ten to 9.... Obviously they went straight home but it meant that the little girl couldn't see her dad that weekend in case of infection... Felt really sorry for the family as it wasn't even one of those things where they were fine but then deteriorated, that child was ill at drop off!

I'm happy with those that choose not to vaccinate only if they choose not to have treatment. You can't be all conspiracy/anti chemicals/drug companies one day and then pop to the GP/hospital for your medicine from the very same drug companies the next day.

If you choose to risk the life of others around you, you should have to choose to risk your own life too, not pick and choose the bits you want when you want them. All or nothing - who would choose not to vaccinate then?

So sorry threebed - you are quite right! I am in agreement with your posts.

My comments were aimed at eatsleep who seemed to be casting doubt on the availability of clear evidence for the relative risks.

Grovel, grovel ...

MrsderPunkt indeed!

I know of an anti-vaxxer ( through FB) shares all the anti-vaxxer stuff then posts pics of her child's eczema and allergy medicines and how hard life is for them :/

She did post up stuff once that vaccines can cause eczema and allergies. I'm one of those horrid little people who asked how her DC got eczema if they weren't vaccinated.

For those saying vaccines are not 100% effective anyway: this is made worse by anti-vaxxers. The way it works is that each case of say, measles involves the disease multiplying many times. Each multiplication is like a new generation. Each new generation has spontaneous mutations in its DNA and the advantageous mutations will benefit those bacteria abs help them to survive. This happens in all organisms and is called evolution, but happens astonishingly fast in bacteria and viruses because the fit so many generations into a short space of time.

The more cases of an illness there are, the more new strains evolve and the more different they become to the point where your vaccine immunity may not protect you.

This is why the flu jab is given each year. It's not because your body forgets but to give immunity against the newer strains.

Herd immunity is a combination of suppressing the evolution of a bacterium and simply reducing the prevalence down to a point where it's statistically highly unlikely to ever come into contact with the disease.

Those who are going in about steering clear of unvaccinated kids, aren't you a bit more concerned about the high percentage of kids that are vaccinated however being fuck knows what else. Surely statistically this a much bigger Danger. Amd u can't keep kids home with a sniffle just because it could hit someone else harder. That would mean that all winter most kids wouldn't be in school..

I thought they were for me Adnerb95 !

No no, I wasn't casting doubt on their availability in general, just saying that I wasn't aware of them (so wasn't posting authoritatively as if I knew them) - and also that no-one had posted them on this discussion.

Interesting discussion, but the vaccinations of most adults have either worn off or, like myself, their age means that they have never had them, so why is it that just unvaccinated children who are a risk?

And don't recently vaccinnated children shed?

My children like all children are harbingers of an assortment of bugs throughout the year so we aren't in the habit of being around people who might be affected by that mermaid. However if I knew them to be perfectly well I would not make a difference between them seeing a newborn and any other child so put that in your pipe and smoke it

I've never been convinced enough that they are perfectly well for that situation to arise, though. We don't infect the world with our diseases.

Sod the self serving bs about it being good for kids to be exposed to a plethora of germs...sick kids should be kept at home until they're better. In my experience, children and adults trotting around sneezing and coughing over others is a much more real and present risk (and isolating factor) for cancer patients and the elderly. But this is an unpopular view because it is expensive and has childcare implications.