To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

GF, mumps is asynptomatic in 1/3 of cases too so they may be immune to that as well.

Museum, I don't really give a shit how many people who are extreme in their thinking HCP's see, it doesn't excuse rudeness and sweeping peoples fears and concerns aside as if they mean nothing. If i did that in my job i'd very quickly be struck off. and rightly so.

"Ellsteeth, there are alternatives to Calpol if you need paracetamol and, in any case, current NICE guidelines advise not treating fevers unless they're actually causing discomfort. A fever is very unlikely to do any damage, it's part of the body's immune response"

I asked if he/ she left a raging fever or severe pain untreated. I also asked if he/ she left infections untreated in his/ her children. High fevers DO cause discomfort. And high enough fevers can be damaging, and are also extremely unpleasant for the child. Do you seriously advocate letting disease run its course and not intervening with "modern medicine"? That is terrifying!! Bordering on a social services case if genuinely the case I'd say.

Adults so rarely have fevers that they forget how fucking awful they are.

Ellsteeth, you asked if she would let them suffer a raging fever that could cause them damage without giving them Calpol. (No mention of severe pain there)

High fevers may cause discomfort but some children do run high fevers and still eat/drink/play without it bothering them. My own children are like this and are old enough now to say if they feel unwell and need paracetamol. That's why current advice focuses on the behaviour of the child rather than the numbers on the thermometer. Children can be very unwell with relatively low-grade fevers and otherwise fine despite a high temperature.

Temperatures that are high enough to cause damage are usually brought about by things like heatstroke.

Not every illness requires intervention with 'modern medicine'. Some do just run their course. Common medical advice - just rest and drink plenty of fluids'. Have you really never heard that before?

stig you scare me. What would you do if your child developed appendicitis? Septicaemia? Pneumonia? My dsis had pneumonia as a young child. Without modern medicine she would not be here now.

There was a family in Canada the news not too long ago who tried to treat their son's meningitis with garlic and onion.

in fact they are stronger than any fully vaccinated child I know

Totally anecdotal, but that is what I have seen in the unvaccinated children I know.

To be fair-I have very rarely given my (fully vaccinated) children calpol and they have only ever had antibiotics 3 times between them. I never gave calpol for fever alone, and I always tried other things first.

To give stig the benefit of the doubt, perhaps her children haven't had an illness that has required treatment with antibiotics.

But on the three occasions they had something that needed antibiotics they were at the doctor so fast their feet didn't take touch the ground!

"Adults so rarely have fevers that they forget how fucking awful they are."

Word. I had a 41 degree fever earlier this year and it was SHIT. (also for all that my body was doing its best to kill the raging infection I had, it wasn't actually managing to do it, which is why I nearly died until I got pumped full of drugs. Modern medicine FTW.)

And yes, I'm of the "treat the child, not the figure on the thermometer" school of antipyretic administration too. If they have a high fever but are happily playing then I wouldn't treat, if they're miserable/have some other symptom that would benefit from the painkilling properties like a really sore throat, I treat it, not least because feeling ghastly stops you being able to rest properly. Though I can't imagine anyone not feeling miserable with a 40 degree fever.

Oh, and I too have rarely sick children, who were vaccinated. Means nothing. It's like the "I breastfed and my child was never sick, that means breastfeeding is a wonder drug" and "I formula fed and my child was never sick, that means breastfeeding has no benefits". Your one data point means sod-all.

I think there's a parallel universe that wants its discussion about the meaning of peer review back.

Vaccinations may not have a 100% success rate but I doubt very much many things do and I really do not think the leading cause of cancer is trace chemicals in vaccinations.

We cannot control the world and in the grand scheme of things I cannot see that choosing to not vaccinate children who can be vaccinated has any positive impact on their lives or potentially the lives of others. I do hope the children with cancer at school can continue to have some kind of normality whilst being treated rather than being quarantined at home so some parents can exercise their choice, thus taking the choices away from someone else's child.

Of course bumbley. I didn't ask if she treated EVERY illness with medicine! I asked if she let her child suffer a very high fever, pain or an infection without treating, or words to that effect. I think everyone knew what I meant! Funny he/ she hasn't been back isn't it. I reckon a wind up, or at least I hope so!!

And the pp who said their child had only ever had antibiotics three times - that's great, we use too many antibiotics as a society. I asked if she never used antibiotics. I try to avoid antibiotics in my own children unless necessary but I'd never deny them if they had a serious infection. That's barking! (and child abuse)

"And the pp who said their child had only ever had antibiotics three times - that's great, we use too many antibiotics as a society. A I asked if she never used antibiotics. I try to avoid antibiotics in my own children unless necessary but I'd never deny them if they had a serious infection. That's barking! (and child abuse)"

Absolutely- I agree. I was just making the point that you can be pro vaccination and anti over medicating.

Yes of course Bertrand.

There's a huge difference between being anti OVER medicating (sensible) and being against medicating at all! (crazy, cruel, abusive)

ells unfortunately i've met a lot of stigs so i don't believe they are on the wind up
One told me once i could cure my illness with herbs

I had to actually look up the conspiracy theory on HIV, i don't know why i was surprised.

Luckily I haven't come across any! But then I'm a scientist so perhaps I'm less likely to because of where I work etc.

Source: Office for National Statistics

Prior to 2006, the last death from acute measles was in 1992. In 2006, there was 1 measles death in a 13-year-old male who had an underlying lung condition and was taking immunosuppressive drugs. Another death in 2008 was also due to acute measles in an unvaccinated child with a congenital immunodeficiency, whose condition did not require treatment with immunoglobulin. In 2013, 1 death was reported in a 25-year-old man following acute pneumonia as a complication of measles.

All other measles deaths since 1992 shown above are in older individuals and were caused by the late effects of measles. These infections were acquired during the 1980s or earlier, when epidemics of measles occurred.

I guess you take this to mean that the UK measles vaccination programme has been a great success? I can't figure out what anti-vaccination message you can draw from your post.

Kali, unbelievable, isn't it? I'm not Bob Gallo's hugest fan, but that is a disgusting and intentional smear.

Beg2differ what exactly is the anti vax message from that post??

The anti-vax argument seems to be that modern medicine is so good, almost everyone can survive measles. Modern medicine is fantastic! Except the bits of modern medicine like vaccinations.

Which ignores the (a) preventative effect that vaccination and herd immunity has and (b) it's not just death you need to worry about, there's long term measles damage as well.