To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

Agreed redspotty that is truly awful. But I don't think vaccine research and development is the same. I guess I have my view partly because I see scientists dedicated to vaccine (and other modalities) research and how scrupulous the testing and regulation is. Also all of the researchers that I know, without exception, are committed to patient benefit. That's what gets them out of bed in the morning, not making money. A large proportion of new therapies, of all modalities, stem from academically led programmes. Big Pharma license them in to take them through expensive trials and get them to market. Obviously no medicine is 100% safe but the MHRA and FDA do their utmost to make sure the benefit outweighs the risk in all cases. So I vaccinate my children, as do all of my colleagues and friends.

EllsTeeth - have a look at my link.

I don't doubt your own sincerity.

Which link is that Winchester?

Winchester, in a discussion on vaccines any and every vaccine is up for discussion. You can't unilaterally decide that only one particular vaccine or group of vaccines is relevant. Smallpox is clearly highly relevant given that the disease has been eradicated and vaccination has played a very large part in that achievement.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

Indeed.

That doesn't mean the opinions equally accurate or valid, though. And it doesn't make either of them immune from criticism.

It's a common misconception. Your right to an opinion doesn't mean other people don't get to point out that it's daft.

Jassy likewise

Dr William Thompson, a couple of posts back.

LadyConstance: This is not true. The benefits and risks of any medical intervention stand or fall on their own outcomes. This is really self-evident.

Ellsteeth I'm quite sure there have been some diligent and committed individual people working on ensuring that infant formula is as good a substitute as possible, but ultimately the multinational company acted unethically. I think shareholders come first in our society.

I think this and this tell us all we need to know about William Thompson. Interestingly, he's been promising to come out with his "revelations" for at least two years but has never managed it.

Excellemt! Shall we engage on the actual merits of the cases, then (as I tried to do by pointing out the tired autism reference)?

The whole 'I'm entitled to my opinion' thing is just odd if you're not willing to talk about it.

This is from my link.

Washington, DC, May 03, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- According to multiple reliable sources, CDC whistleblower Dr. William Thompson, a senior scientist at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), will soon publish a reworking of data from a controversial study first published in 2004. If true, this is of major concern. For over a decade, officials have cited this disputable study to claim no connection between the Measles, Mumps, Rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism and to deny compensation to parents of MMR vaccine-injured children.

Dr. Thompson has admitted in taped phone conversations and in a statement through his lawyer, that he and other authors of the study, which include senior officials at CDC, manipulated the data and violated study protocol to conceal their findings linking the MMR vaccine to autism. In what can only be described as scientific fraud, Dr. Thompson is now poised to publish “a rework” of the data in a blatant attempt to exonerate the MMR vaccine…While the CDC claims no knowledge of a connection between MMR and autism, Dr. Thompson’s own statement to Congressman Bill Posey (R-FL) when he released thousands of documents to Posey is explicit, “We hypothesized that if we found statistically significant effects at either the 18-month or 36-month threshold, we would conclude that vaccinating children early with the MMR vaccine could lead to autism-like characteristics or features.”

In fact, the CDC’s data did show statistically significant effects at the 36-month threshold, proof that the CDC knew their study found a causal connection between the MMR vaccine and autism. CDC responded to this finding by manipulating the data to make this finding disappear.

The …edit out a bit of publicity for the Vaxxed film which I thought was irrelevant. You are welcome to look at the link for the full version and to google the case more fully, of course.

The benefits and risks of any medical intervention stand or fall on their own outcomes. This is really self-evident.

And? You keep posting these elliptical statements which simply don't answer the point, and claiming that things are "self-evident" or "obvious" when the reverse is the case. This is a discussion about vaccination, not about one particular vaccination.

Vaccines do carry risks, the problem is we can't tell who's going to have side effects and how severe those effects will be. The Government have set up a Vaccine Damage Fund because they acknowledge that vaccines can cause damage!

LadyConstance Your links say nothing except that he is, indeed, a whistleblower and has given up his career for the entirely ethical reason that he has radically changed his mind about the work he has carried out for the CDC. And leftbrainrightbrain? Really?

What do you mean they don't answer the point? They make the point that smallpox vaccine is irrelevant to the decision making process for parents over other vaccines.

It's hardly elliptical. It's the bleeding obvious. I keep making the statement because people keep disagreeing with it because, you know, SMALLPOX.

Winchester, I'm afraid I believe the eminent academic researchers (who I worked very closely with) who were originally involved in discrediting Andrew Wakefield's "research" over this guy. Look at the "undersigned" in your article - the Alliance for Natural Health"? There was outrage at the Wakefield publication because he was responsible for KILLING CHILDREN. Not because he lost big pharma a few bucks. Anyway, I'm out. Some people will never be convinced, sadly.

Diid you read this bit Ellsteeth.

Dr. Thompson has admitted in taped phone conversations and in a statement through his lawyer, that he and other authors of the study, which include senior officials at CDC, manipulated the data and violated study protocol to conceal their findings linking the MMR vaccine to autism.

No, the links, particularly the first one, explain precisely why Thompson's current reasoning is entirely flawed. The fact that he is supported by Wakefield who is known to have acted with a massive disregard of fundamental ethics also tells us all we need to know. If he had any scientific credibility, he would have come out with something like, y'know, evidence over the last couple of years instead of lying low.

I just read this part of your post

There was outrage at the Wakefield publication because he was responsible for KILLING CHILDREN.

I'm not sure you know entirely a great deal about this. But do enjoy reading up about it.

When I read Thompson's Nature paper linking MMR to autism I might start to take more notice...!

Yerss - those taped telephone conversations. That would be the "cherry-picked and highly edited" tapes of highly dubious legality produced by someone with a known personal obsession with anti-vax. This really is getting into batshit conspiracy territory and carries no credibility at all.

They make the point that smallpox vaccine is irrelevant to the decision making process for parents over other vaccines.

Repeating this statement doesn't make it true.

He killed children because he discouraged people from taking up the MMR vaccine and as such caused outbreaks of measles. Obviously I didn't mean that I think he physically murdered children with his bare hands (although he might as well have done). And believe me, I do know a lot about it!

LadyConstance: How is it not true. Stun me.

Ellsteeth: no. Really not.