To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

Considering how many people died of smallpox over the centuries before an effective vaccine came in, saying it is irrelevant is just mind-bogglingly stupid...

gonetoseeamanaboutadog Vindictive? Not at all. Not saying I want it to happen, but nothing vindictive about saying that if your kids get serious hurt by an illness, or start an outbreak where others are seriously hurt, because you did not get them vaccinated then you belong in prison.

A word about tetanus - once the island community of St Kilda had regular contact with the outside world deaths from neonatal tetanus went up to 80%. Imagine that. 8 out of 10 babies dying of an illness that a modern vaccine can prevent.

Parents from my ds's class refuse to vaccinate both of their kids as they don't want to put unnecessary chemicals into their bodies, apparently if they are unwell they take them to a Homeopath. The Homeopath isn't helping her ds's severe excema though which is keeping him awake all night and stopping him from doing swimming at school but she won't take him to the GP because the fucking Homeopath knows best

They also aren't allowed to eat sweets, chocolate or anything processed (right down to Baked Beans because they come in a tin)!

In fairness Wilbur

My dd has eczema and I use bunch of vegan hippy shit or least that's why you guys call it.

Nothing to do with being anti chemical and everything to do with the fact that all the shit from the go made it worse...

Gp.

And what's wrong with avoiding processed food. No one died without baked beans

It's not just one or two things it's the whole lot altogether.

No vaccinations
No GP visits (she hasn't tried GP recommended excema treatments only the Homeopath stuff that isn't working)
No gluten
No Dairy
No processed food at all which she shoves down our throats when someone produces a bag of Wotsits at school pick up time, while she gives her kids a Tupperware of sunflower seeds!

What I asked was do people actually believe big pharma make vaccines that they know will HARM children

Did Whirlpool sell dryers that catch fire?

Look at the history of thalidomide en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide and bear in mind that pharmaceutical companies were open to being sued for the harm they caused then.

They are exempt from being sued for vaccine damage.

Well besides the vaccinations and the gp refusal I don't see a problem

It's her life that's made difficult with the food. Kids will rebel soon enough.

I keep my dds off fairy cos of eczema and I don't see the dr for anything eczema related unless it's infected.

I wouldn't throw shit down people's throats about it all but she has that right to not vaccinate at least.

The rest doesn't affect you

I would always chose to vaccinate but it's the parents right not too. Then if the child grows up and wants vaccinations it's their right to go get them.

I'd be more concerned for the immune compromised about those parents who wouldn't bother to inform the school if their child had chicken pox, flu, norovirus etc.

I don't get my children vaccinated. These days.

I am pro vaxx. But my children have autism (pda) a number of other disabilities & mh problems (social anxiety & phobias). They are phobic of doctors (& hospitals & dentists) to an extreeme extent. Panic attacks are violent & debilitating & melt downs can last days & send them back months.

In time, as they get older & we have more camHS imput we will hopefully work on this & look at social stories/therapy/maybe sedatives to get them there. But for now the risk to their well being is too much.

I'm sure all the medical professionals we deal with would have no problem backing us up, but no doubt plenty people would still judge. My kids had all their baby jabs/MMr etc but no flu/chicken pox/menigitis etc and I won't make them at present.

What about teens who refuse vaxx, or LA children or children in residential schools/secure units. Do we just let them go free if they refuse vaxx? Wouldn't work in reality.

How is it relevant ? To different diseases, different vaccines and different risks? I think it's stupid to say it's relevant. It's obtuse. Shows you don't understand the issue at all.

"They are exempt from being sued for vaccine damage."

Because otherwise they would refuse to make and supply vaccines. Because they are commercial organizations.That's why the government underwrites the programme.

Yes, Bertrand, what I am saying is that pharmaceuticals are guided by profit and if there are no financial or legal desincentives to selling a faulty product that they have already invested massive amounts of money in, they are not going to take it off the market on ethical grounds.

They were still marketing thalidomide in Spain in the 1970s, even though by the end of the 1950s the birth defects it caused were more than apparent.

Atenco

Interesting that I don't know a single medical researcher or big pharma employee (my line of work) who has chosen not to vaccinate their children.

caipira - 'active' refers to it actually causing illness in the patient rather than it being 'latent'.

From that link to the WHO: "BCG is only partially effective: it provides some protection against severe forms of pediatric TB, but is not completely protective against disease in infants and is unreliable against adult pulmonary TB."

I thought the BCG only provided protection 15-20 years anyway? If so any protection I had is long gone and I'm not aware that an adult can have it again. It would be a cold day in hell before I went through that again though.

On the subject of tetanus, when DH trod on a nail recently he was told by the walk in centre that he didn't need to have a tetanus as, if you have your jabs when you're a kid and then several boosters (I can't remember how many), adults over a certain age will have lifelong immunity.

winchester smallpox is relevant to the argument because it has been eradicated. Vaccination has had a lot to do with that. Polio is another relevant argument - it is resurgent in parts of the world where political extremists kill aid workers who administer the polio vaccine. Vaccines work. Not all of them work perfectly - but no-one is claiming that they do. They are not 100% without risk - but no-one is claiming that they are.

It's the anti-vaxxers who spout claims about all the 'poison' we are putting into our children's bodies, about the 'big pharma conspiracies' - and none of that has yielded any scientific paper that will stand up to rigorous scrutiny. It's effectively a faith vs science argument, which is why it always gets so heated.

mermaid I truly think you are from another planet. Or the sea, perhaps...

Good luck with your campaign to imprison parents whose unvaccinated children start an outbreak (though presumably there would be rather a lot of parents to imprison if the outbreak were to be possible...).

Meanwhile I will consider suing the factory across the river from my children's school as the air pollution is definitely harmful to asthma and they're contributing. And the chocolate companies targeting my children as obesity is a deadly epidemic and they're contributing. And any children I see coughing and sneezing in broad daylight as this is definitely detrimental to my children's health also.

Oh, and if I do decide to have my child vaccinated and God forbid, they should suffer a reaction and become permanently disabled, I shall sue all the other parents who coerced me to have it done in order to protect their children from harm. Herd immunity works both ways - something no one pro-vax has a word to say about.

Atenco, if any given vaccine were proven to be even half as harmful as thalidomide, do you seriously think it would still be on the market? As a direct result of thalidomide, manufacturers simply cannot keep these things quiet.

Good luck with all those legal actions, gonetosee. I hope you have very very deep pockets.

If, God forbid, your children should have an illness that could have been prevented by vaccination and become permanently disabled, who will you sue then?

How can it be so hard to understand? It's like saying - well this chemo drug worked on this cancer with these benefits and disbenefits so that chemo drug must work on that cancer with the same benefits and disbenefits

How do you not understand that- it's so obvious

What makes me cringe is all these people who say "I've done my own research....". Really? As far as I can tell, unless you are a medic or a statistician with a specialism in then area

I could turn that around and ask why do you vaccinate and assert that it is safe to do so, if you are not a "medic or a statistician with a specialism in then area"?

And by the way, my cousin is a doctor who opposes vaccination.

But it isn't obvious, Winchester. It's a basic scientific process: we develop vaccine A against disease A, test it carefully, use it, discover that it's effective although it has some dangers and side effects. We decide that we need to prevent disease B. We decide we would like to develop a vaccine. We use all our scientific knowledge, including what we learnt in the course of developing vaccine A. We develop vaccine B, we test it even more carefully bearing in mind our knowledge of the problems with vaccine A, we get it independently tested and peer reviewed and put it through a rigorous licensing process, and decide to put it on the market. We find it works. It still has some dangers, but benefits in terms of preventing deaths and disability are so great that they heavily outweigh the small risk, which we can cut down by identifying the risk factors.

If you don't trust that process, how can you even trust the food you put in your mouth?