to ask if it's difficult to be friends with childless people?

[CoolToned]

I don't have children.

My friends who've gone on to have children have morphed into two broad categories: 'people with children' and 'full on parents'.

In the case of the former, yes they have children and they will feature in their conversation, but not to the exclusion of everything else. They also realise there's a limit to my level of interest. Yeah, I'm interested in what their kids are up to, but not to the extent that I want to hear about their every bowel movement or the minutia of their sleeping patterns. For HOURS on end. My friendships have largely continued as before, but obviously I see a bit less of them, which is fair enough.

'Full on parents' talk about nothing but their offspring with a martyrish undertone and how they've never known tiredness like it and 'just you wait'. I've felt like asking if we could try talking about something outside this tiny bubbles you've created for five minutes, take your pick: music, film, sport, politics I really don't mind' and would it be really too much to make a brief inquiry about what I'm up to at least occasionally?

In a few cases I've accepted that the friendship is on ice for a few years and may never be revived.

I'm closer to a couple of friends with no children than those with. My child does not 100% define me, I'm still me too. It was a little different in the earlier days but as DD got older things became much easier. In fact we're thinking of doing a group holiday with some childfree/less friends next year (5 adults and our then just turned 13 year old).

I am childless and have friends with kids and friends without - I enjoy both of their companies.

Thee things I do with my childless friends are a little more wild - more evenings out, weekend stuff, this summer we spent 3 weeks cycling in the Alps, for example,

and with my friends with kids we'll do quick coffees or take aways at theirs.

but both have value to me.

Absolutely not! Being childless does not dictate who they are. I have old friends I have known through school, church and UNi, and a few are childless, and does not affect our friendship. I am friend with them for who they are, not their choices unless they are racist, disablist or sexist.

NewPotatoes I don't think I made myself clear. I have many friends who don't have kids who are lovely and who I get on with very well. I really was referring to a very specific sort of person without children who does not understand that my having children means I cannot gallivant around the way they do. And gallivant is a word that fits to describe their lifestyle. I am not ignorant of the fact that people without children have commitments and that most people, with children or without, do precious little gallivantingirl. But the people I was referring to, do.

I'm childfree and have found myself gradually excluded from my friendship group as the rest of my friends have married and had children. I'm not invited to the children's birthday parties although couples with children are, those with children go away on holiday and to festivals together. The single childfree are not invited whereas we used to do everything together.

I do still make the effort. Going round to drop off shepherds pie and cake when a friend is breastfeeding, pet sitting, going to theirs for meet ups so no babysitter is required. But I've been shut out of group get togethers and it's very hurtful and isolating when this group was my main social circle. I've started to develop closer friendships elsewhere, particularly with other childfree friends.

And no I don't want to go out til 2am! Coffees, lunches,nights with wine watching a film or eating nice food are my idea of a good time

I think that some childless people find it difficult to understand what their friends lives are like after having children, in the same way that some parents find it difficult to understand that those without children have responsibilities that are just as important and time consuming.

Some childless people do live fabulously exciting lives with lots of parties and holidays, but then so do some people with children.

It all depends on the individual circumstances and the people involved, rather than generalising and stereotyping people.

I have a variety of friends who do not have children. In the main it is not difficult. The only ones I really struggle with is a couple who are childfree by choice and yet still have retained those 'i know how I would do it if I had a child' views. They actually gave me a book discrediting autism diagnosis on the basis of over-diagnosis in the USA a few months after ds was diagnosed because they think I molly coddle him and that I somehow invented and managed to convince many professions of his autism. They are nice people but I am finding it harder and harder to find the common ground we once had.

Steve, they did whaaaaat?!!!

Yep oce I was pretty pissed off but for a variety of reasons I let it go.....well let it go to the extent that I now only moan about it on anonymous Internet forums.

Steve - that's seriously shit by anyone's standards.

Of course not. My best friend is child-free and we joke she has known our (and another couple's) children since "before they were born".

If someone described themselves as 'child-free' rather than childless, I would assume their kids had grown up/left home.

So for me anyway, it would cause confusion.

I love my child free friends. I get sick to the back teeth of all the one-upmanship (upwomanship?) with regards to the children's development from many mums I know.

Regarding the terms, I always thought that the term "childless" implied there was something missing, which is certainly not the case for those who have chosen not to have kids. In the same way, "childfree" isn't the right term for those who are unable to have kids as I'm pretty sure they'd give their right arm not to be free of children.

To me, my friends who choose not to have children are child free

Those of us who would love to have children but can't, are involuntarily childless

Not having children when you dearly want them is not freedom.

Cross post missbishi!

You've described how I feel perfectly x

I feel I should add here that I'm child free by choice but I wouldn't describe my life as wild, carefree or exciting and it can sometimes grate a little that people assume that.
I like early nights and don't really like big or boozy nights out, I'm not very adventurous and I'm completing an OU degree so don't have a lot of free time.
I actually go out and drink a lot less than sone of my friends with children.

I miss my childless friends. I had my first child young and most of my friends were childless so I took it for granted. Now they're boring like me :-(

Is there not some differnece in exhaustion. You are knackerd because you have young children that you love unconditionally and would do anything for them (especially if they were planned). Compared to those who are working full time, worried about how long funding will last to ensure yourself and others will have a job, covering a third maternity leave. I'm not suggesting parent don't have this stress also. But it would be nice if, some, parents would accept that they are not more tired than everyone else. Just a different type of tired.

Hey Duck, lots of mums work ft as well!

at duck thinking that if you're a parent you never have any work worries or stresses. Really?

I sometimes get jealous of my childless colleagues' ability to work longer hours, and reap the rewards (good projects, promotions etc). I can't compete within my (full time but little overtime) hours and always worry when it comes to appraisal, redundancy times etc, which I never did before DC. It's also not the "done thing" where I work to talk about DC or any external commitments, unless it's something like a sport or voluntary thing (which people with DC and WoH have less time for).

Great post new potatoes. The them and us division is not helpful to women.

I just wanted to pop back on and wish Pink and Banana all the best with ttc. It's an absolutely shit thing to go through. It took me 6 years to get my DS. I responded poorly to IVF, no idea why as on paper I should have got lots of good eggs. I was on my last cycle when I got my lasting BFP. We were told that if that cycle went like the others there would be no point trying again and to look at donor or adoption. God knows why it worked that time but it did. It's such a lottery. I really struggled to be around my friends with children as it was so overwhelmingly painful at certain times. I really hope it works out for you whatever way your journey takes you

Thank you Cupcakes and congratulations on your DS. I've sadly just had my second miscarriage (after IVF no 4) so I'm feeling pretty damn childless right now. Two friends have just given birth and sent photos round of their beautiful new babies. I have never felt more barren. I wonder if there's a word, probably in German, along the lines of schadenfreude, which means 'I'm happy for you but sad for me' 😓