to ask if it's difficult to be friends with childless people?

[CoolToned]

I don't have children.

As a childless person, unfortunately not by choice, I'd say it is pretty hard. Me and DH have spend the last three years in a blur of scans, procedures and failed IVF cycles and despite me being open with my friends, some of the insensitive comments I've heard (along the lines of me not being ready to be a parent, God's will, how adopting would be easier etc etc) have meant that my social circle has shrunk dramatically. From my end it's bittersweet to see my friends with kids, my best friend is pregnant with her third and i feel like I'm still not off the starting blocks. Luckily there still are people who understand (including friends with kids) but it's not been easy.

Pinkheels

Sorry, posted too early. Just wanted to say that if anything, this crapy journey through infertility has taught me that people we see as having an amazing life are actually struggling with a lot of quite private pain and heartache. Society and culture are geared for families and not being a parent is a very lonely place.

I can understand that Pinkheels. And stereotypes on both sides are unhelpful. I don't relate at all to the ideas presented on the other thread about childless people and bars and restaurants and nights out, before I had DS we just worked then came home!

I guess it just depends on what your life was like before you had children, and when you had them.

I do sometimes ....I do have them, my best friend is child free

But if I'm honest my child free friends will never fully understand my life and the things I have going on cos I have DC

and I really want my BF to have a baby

Do we really want to go down the road of competitive woe is me, eggy? If you take that tack,then having children was a lifestyle choice as well.......and the most cursory glance at these boards or indeed meeting a baby would tell you there's a fighting chance of parenthood being a sleepless, faeces and vomit strewn horror show for several years, so it shouldn't be a shock....

But that gets us nowhere. In answer to the question, I am childless. I've known most of my friends since way before they had their children. We are still friends. Less contact when they were in the maternity leave, doing stuff in the daytime phase as I was at work. But it comes back in time.....it probably helps that I am always happy to have an evening on a mates sofa so they don't have to sort babysitting etc and we can relax. On that note, something I always want to point out on these threads.....I am 40.....kids or no kids, I don't want to go on the piss until 3am any more than you do.... that's an age thing, not a parental status thing!!

Bewty I get what you mean I think.

Some people just become obsessed when they have dcs and frankly quite dull to be around. I distanced myself from a few people as I just couldn't cope with another conversation about milestones or teeth.

My closest friends now are either child free or those who don't bang on about their dcs incessantly or at can least acknowledge that they aren't perfect angels.

I have 2 who I adore, by the way, but I only ever talk about them at work if they've done something very funny and it makes a good story, or anyone asks.

Since becoming a parent I have far less emotional energy for my friends. And less time. I guess that makes me a "bad friend".
Some childless people understand and forgive and know it won't be forever (I hope) and I can be around more when my youngest is maybe school age.
Other childless people give me never ending guilt about my lack of availability and I have enough guilt already about work and parenting so yes, it's hard to stay friends with them.

I have several close friends who either didn't have children for a long time, or still don't have or want children. I have a great time with them and really enjoy not talking about the mum stuff all the time. But there is no doubt that people without children cannot understand or imagine what it is like to have them so I do try to steer clear of talk of being tired/frazzled/overwhelmed cause it's just not compatible. They would maybe bring up another stressful situation, but not realise that we are also dealing with hard stuff (stress at work, parents with cancer/alzheimers, financial worry) as well as having no sleep and almost more exhaustingly no time to recharge and be unhampered by being "needed" 24/7.

I think it depends what you expect from a friendship. To be honest I was never someone who wanted to go out late all the time and text everyday. My few friends are used to me going off grid for a while and we often won't see each other for months, so when I had a child it wasn't a huge shift. I would say most of my friends don't have children and that's fine. I think if there was the expectation that a friendship required going out loads and communicating non-stop than that would be difficult for someone with a child to keep up.

I had two kids in 17 months. It impacted on socialising. One child had an ongoing health problem which wasnt sorted out until he was three and meant that I was forever cancelling at the last minute because he was ill. Yes I know my DH was just as capable of looking after him as I was but between the two of them we barely slept for years. To add to the other one has ASD and got up at 2am for 2 hours every night for nearly five years - we took turns to stay awake, we were derranged with tiredness. I am amazed we're all still alive!

Certain friends disappeared (my bridesmaid and childhood friend) but some stuck it out, kept calling, let me cry on them etc, didnt make me feel guilty when yet again I had to cancel a night out and I bloody love those friends and have, I hope, repaid their kindness when they have needed me since.

Friendships need work and you need to allow somebody to evolve whether thats because their career takes off, they have kids or decide to move to a yurt in Somerset (or all three). If you need someone to stay exactly the same then it wont work.

It can be because my child free friends sometimes don't get how little time and energy I have for late nights out. I have been told I am just not making enough effort. But if I suggest a weekend lunch out instead then some say they won't be out of bed by then! I also found most of my child free friends deeply unsupportive after I had a hard birth (in which I and he nearly died) and had a very sick baby who was in and out of hospital for over a year. They did not call, come over or offer an iota of help. Not so much as a cup of tea. But I think they just didn't understand how hard it was. To be honest, that really undermined these friendships and they are now quite tepid. It makes me sad.

My dearest friends (for over 40 years) are a childless by choice couple. They are great with our dc and dgc and there has never been any clash of interests.

One day someone will say the 'you don't know tired until you've had kids' and I will actually snap and tell them they don't know tired until they've had a chronic illness that means you're knackered forever and there's no end in sight.

The competitive tiredness does piss me off. most people's tiredness stems from some level of choice - if you choose to have children then of course sleep deprivation is going to happen. But being all 'you wouldn't understand' isn't going to endear you to your childfree friends. And if they aren't capable of understanding, why bang on about it to them?

Both sides have to give a little - I won't go into mind numbing detail about my working day if you won't describe in great detail your cracked nipples/the latest poonami etc.

I think when your children are young it's quite difficult as they do tend to dominate every single aspect of your life, from your disposable income, amount of free time, topics of conversation, whether or not you have a career or a job at all, how/ where you choose to socialize., what holidays you take etc.

For about 12-15 years it's pretty difficult to find much common ground with childless or child free people, especially if you are in a couple and they are single. Long standing friendships will often fall by the wayside because of the yawning chasm between your lives that those opposing factors create.

But once your DC are teens and older it makes less and less difference whether your friends have DC or not. I have friends who pretty much all do have kids but we just don't talk about them much any more and they are rarely with us.

No but when I had DC I was the only one with a child and my childless friends fucked off because they were 'pissed off' that I needed family friendly places sometimes when DC was a toddler and wasn't up for all night dinner and drinking - we used to have get togethers and cook, spend the evening eating, drinking and talking - because I eased off the booze (hangover plus child.. urgh!) I wasn't seen as 'fun'

I don't currently have people I consider friends like I used too.

Well said granny

Totally agree livia, if everyone stopped moaning there wouldn't be as much of an issue.

I don't generally mean tiredness due to lack of sleep- now i am beyond the baby/toddler years- more from never being "off duty".

Op
I really dislike this 'childless' tag which seems to be bopping around.
I have never stopped seeing my friends without DC and never did. Mine used to moan that I never bought my dd out to our lunches etc, no way....that's my time to catch up with them. We would get the token 'how's little Scoop' out the way and it's always just like before.My mum friends are much the same also, we had DC late and still need our time away and make bloomin sure we get it.

I much prefer time with any friends without DC whether they have them or not.

I found it much easier to be good friends with people without kids. There's no competition or unhelpful advice, no need to talk about kid stuff endlessly. I have had a couple of friends back away who don't have kids, I wonder if they presumed I'd become a baby bore who never wants to go out or perhaps it's their own issues about facing potential childlessness - one friend was divorcing after a short marriage and another was single and hitting 40.

People without kids can imagine what it's like to have kids and they can be having a shitty time, but it's impossible to understand how they will change and feel as a parent - the tiredness maybe but more about the relentlessness responsibility and emotional baggage. I've had a friend have a baby more recently and it's hit her and her marriage like a ton of bricks. There's no way she'd have predicted how she now feels and how much her life has changed - practically and emotionally.

And when I met a friend without kids recently, my DD was being annoying and being a typical insensitive six year old. When my friend was clearly upset and angry at her I felt protective of my child but I also understood - kids can be bloody annoying and if they aren't your own you don't have that love to cushion the blow. I suspect some child free friends aren't always choosing that status, even if they claim to not want them. Many would love to marry and at least have the choice.

In most cases no it doesn't make a difference, but it can. I have a friend who doesn't think it's a night out if it ends before 2am and refuses to plan stuff in advance as it has to be spontaneous. That just doesn't work for me any more. And yes, at the moment with a young child and work, I am less 'fun' than I used to be because I have a lot less time and energy.

Then you have to listen about their lay-ins and their social life .... Baghhhhh smug childless beasts !,

Yes, I think these people can live without your friendship! And I see why you don't want to go on the dinghy, but I don't see why you seem offended they even suggested it. I guess they thought it would be fun for children. I think that's an issue that quite often comes up too - I know a couple of parents who not only won't come to things but who get cross you asked because obviously they couldn't have a coffee at 11am on a Saturday, that's nap time!