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To be *livid* at this? Attempted murder of man working to make women's sport fairer

356 replies

Sporadicus · 22/09/2016 16:31

So not only did Jeska use their unfair advantage to win medals meant for female athletes, but Jeska then tries to murder the man attemting to restore fairness to women's fell running:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-womens-fell-running-champ-8891893

And yet, the BBC decide it's not relevant to the story that Jeska was born male:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

OP posts:
powershowerforanhour · 23/09/2016 00:49

I suspect the point that bambambini meant to get across was that

  • women do not commit violent crime at anywhere near the rates that men do, whereas MTF trans people do, so putting a MTF trans crime down as commited by a woman is unfairly tarnishing womens' relatively good record wrt violent crime
  • autistic people are no more likely than NT people to commit violent crime (don't know if this supposition is true or not).
As well you know Great. You're just being disingenuous.
NotMe321 · 23/09/2016 00:49

If the autism was seen as a factor and allowed to be reported, then that rather throws a spanner in the works saying that the motive/ discussion about the case cannot be discussed.

No - they are fully entitled to report what the defence said in court.

napmeistergeneral · 23/09/2016 00:52

Yy, Miffer! Exactly.

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 00:54

The BBC has not only drunk the KoolAid, it's opened up a franchise and is enthusiastically promoting. This is their helpful guide. (my bold)

Transgender
This is an umbrella term for people whose gender is different from their "assigned" sex at birth - that written on their birth certificate. Gender can refer to one's own, internal sense of being a man or woman, or another type that doesn't fit either category. Gender can also be expressed externally - through clothing, behaviour, body characteristics and so on.

Transsexual
This is a term used by some people who permanently change their bodies, usually, but not always, using hormones or surgery. But some people who go through this process - known as the "transition" - prefer to be known simply as transgender, rather than transsexual. It's best to ask which people prefer.

Non-binary
Non-binary people are those who don't feel male or female. They may feel like both or like something in between. They may have a gender that changes over time or they may not relate to gender at all.

Cisgender
This describes someone who is not transgender. For instance, someone who is named a boy at birth and continues to live as a man would be cisgender. This covers the majority of the population.

"He" or "she"?
Using the appropriate pronouns when talking to someone who is transgender works on the basis of respect for the individual. Generally the name the person chooses to use indicates their gender preference. So, a transgender person called Steve would be referred to as "he", while another called Rachel would be "she". But if you are unsure, it's best to ask the person politely how they wish to be known. This is especially so if you suspect someone identifies as non-binary, in which case a neutral term like "they" may be more appropriate.

Transgender man/transgender woman
People assigned female at birth but living as a man may describe themselves as a "transgender man", while those assigned male at birth but living as a woman may call themselves a "transgender woman". These terms can be shortened to "trans man" or "trans woman".
Some may also use the acronyms FtM (female-to-male) and MtF (male-to-female). Many prefer simply to be identified simply as a "man" or a "woman".

Cross-dresser
This describes a person who wears the clothes usually associated with the "opposite "sex. This is seen as a form of gender expression. The word "transvestite" is not used much these days. And the expression "drag queen" is different, meaning a man who dresses "as a woman" for purposes of entertainment.

'Ask. Listen. Respect'
Journalist and campaigner Jane Fae suggests it doesn't have to be complicated dealing with transgender terms. "People are individuals," she says. Ask politely, listen to what individuals have to say and respect what they tell you. It's a principle and an approach to life that will take you a long way - and not just with the transgender community."

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 00:54

So basically, what I'm saying is, you are expecting too much of the BBC. It would implode.

NotMe321 · 23/09/2016 00:55

I think this case says everything about Jeska's massive sense of entitlement - it wasn't just that they felt they should be allowed to compete in women's athletic space, but that they were actually entitled enough to try to take the life of someone who might stand up to them over it.

If it wasn't for the seriousness of the subject, this would be funny. When one person attempts to stab another, the fact that they have a sense of entitlement is hardly the most relevant or important aspect of their conduct. You could say, for example, that Thomas Hamilton displayed a massive sense of entitlement in thinking he was entitled to take the lives of small children because people had stood up to him over his desire to start a boys' club. But it's not really the most serious aspect of his offence, is it?

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 00:56

here's the link

Sorry to interrupt debate. Some people might be interested. Thank you for starting the thread, OP.

powershowerforanhour · 23/09/2016 00:56

So the defence said autism, which they reported, and the prosecution said disagreement about trans sports rules, which they reported but chose to omit the word trans?

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 00:57

Not me: They're entitled to report background as well. They're not just entitled to report what was said in court

Unless, of courses, there are special reporting restrictions. Are there special reporting restrictions?

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 01:01

I think you can be in no mistake it's been deliberately omitted because it's a trans story.

NotMe321 · 23/09/2016 01:03

Or violent people who are biologically male in womens' prisons.

How about worrying about violent people who are biologically female in women's prisons? It seems to pass people by round here.

We are literally being being fucking erased.

Of course we aren't. Neither literally nor figuratively. It's actually offensive to women to claim that.

How are we supposed to talk about FGM or womens subservience when we aren't allowed to talk about women or females?

Last time I looked, there was no law anywhere against talking about women or females.

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 01:06

Notme: Do you actually think it's ok to put highly violent males in a women's prison? Yes or no?

I am not offended by the erasure claim: it is absolutely true and you know it.

Point three: you haven't travelled far down the trans rabbit hole if you haven't seen complaints about 'FGM' 'periods' 'pregnant women' 'mothers' etc etc etc. You need to get reading before you get your opinions in order.

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 01:08

And you do acknowledge that the trans link to the crime could have been reported?

Not least the fact that he's actually, know, trans?

powershowerforanhour · 23/09/2016 01:10

*people who are biologically male in womens' prisons.

How about worrying about violent people who are biologically female in women's prisons? It seems to pass people by round here*

I know which one I'd back in a fistfight in the prison showerblock. The same one I'd back to win a fell racing championship 3 years in a row, or an MMA fight.

If the fistfight started because one tried to sexually assault the other, I know who I'd pick if I had to guess which was the assailant too.

GreatFuckability · 23/09/2016 01:11

I'm not at all being disengenuous, I'm just utterly bemused by the statement made by the OP that suggests they believe women/autistic people don't commit crime.
I do think if the fact jeska is transsexual is relevant to the crime then it should be reported.

napmeistergeneral · 23/09/2016 01:14

"Violent people who are biologically female". So, violent women?
Yes they should be in women's prisons if they have been committed of a crime...
The point is not that some women in priosn might be violent women. The point is that only women should be in women's prisons.

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 01:23

I'm not at all being disingenuous, I'm just utterly bemused by the statement made by the OP that suggests they believe women/autistic people don't commit crime.

Because that's the great injustice here and that's what this thread is all about and it's really the most important thing. Hmm

GreatFuckability · 23/09/2016 01:36

I'm sorry winchester I wasn't aware there was a rule about which part of a thread I was allowed to comment on, or care about. Confused
I happen to think implying that only men commit violent crime is wrong and disingenuous, actually.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2016 04:43

On the point if whether women commit violence. The one sportswoman people came up with was Tonya Harding. How many decades ago? And it wasn't even her who actually committed the violence.

Just in the last year how many sportsmen have been convicted or accused or filmed beating someone? Oscar P being the most obvious. But lots of American footballers; rapists or abusive in other ways. And Ched keeps popping up.

It is vanishing rare for a female sportsperson to be in the news for violence. But this case will be recorded as one.

WinchesterWoman · 23/09/2016 05:19

'I happen to think implying that only men commit violent crime is wrong'

Seriously who would focus on this when a bloke stabs three people, it's recorded as a woman's crime and he's in a women's prison.

IamalsoSpartacus · 23/09/2016 07:08

This was interesting in the BBC guidelines:

"Cross-dresser

This describes a person who wears the clothes usually associated with the "opposite "sex. This is seen as a form of gender expression. The word "transvestite" is not used much these days."

Now I thought the difference was that cross-dressers did it for sexual kicks, as opposed to a MtF transwoman who may dress in 'women's clothes' to express their preferred identity.

But we aren't allowed to suggest an autogynephiliac element to trans, are we.

Seeyouontheotherside · 23/09/2016 07:12

The vast majority of violence is caused by men. Extreme violence from women is very rare. To record male violence as female is abhorrent because it is a lie. To point out male violence as proof that women are violent because it has been wrongly recorded as female, is absurd. As is pointing to rare case of female aggression that happened years ago when everyday men are committing violent assaults, rape and murder on a vast scale.

People of a certain ideology want to pretend that violent natures must be equal in men and women, otherwise how do you explain that male to female trans has an even higher violence rate than typical men (so definitely not female brained or of female nature)while female to male trans has an extremely low violence rate which is practically non existent compared to males or mtf trans.

IamalsoSpartacus · 23/09/2016 07:14

NotMe, the Press Association does not discipline the press - it is a media organisation itself. You are perhaps thinking of ISPO or OFCOM.

CharlieSierra · 23/09/2016 07:19

Just complained to BBC. Hope they have loads.

GreatFuckability · 23/09/2016 07:19

Right, because its not possible to think two things at the same time. I happen to think that it IS wrong to ignore the fact she is a transwoman in the reporting of this crime. I can, at the same time, also think the statement the OP made is odd.
MrsTP Its a fair point that there are very few women in sport committing violent crime, and I stand corrected on the Tonya Harding thing. But there are plenty of women generally who commit violent crime, less so than men yes, but ever increasing numbers nonetheless.