To be *livid* at this? Attempted murder of man working to make women's sport fairer

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So not only did Jeska use their unfair advantage to win medals meant for female athletes, but Jeska then tries to murder the man attemting to restore fairness to women's fell running:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-womens-fell-running-champ-8891893

And yet, the BBC decide it's not relevant to the story that Jeska was born male:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

Why hate filled and transphobic Shovetheholly?

telegraph doesn't seem to be constrained by the reporting restrictions alleged earlier in the thread... full marks to them for actually explaining the crime

I'm finding the reporting of this really sinister.

Feels like we've moved on a stage. We've moved from "it is compulsory to believe transwomen are women" to "what you don't know doesn't hurt you". The BBC and telegraph have decided that we do not need to know that Jeska is a transgender male - even though that information is very relevant to the story.

This is really creepy and deceitful and it legitimizes transwomen concealing their true identity.

If the motives haven't been heard in court then they can't be reported. The mirror may have been briefed off record. There will no doubt be a report which includes the motives the Crown believes caused crime post sentencing.

Bill, no - the proceedings are ongoing until sentencing has concluded

All sorts of facts can be made public at this stage before sentencing eg previous convictions.

But if they haven't actually been made clear by Police or CPS, then what's the source?

Regarding reporting restrictions - if Jenska was being investigated by the victim for, I dunno, wearing illegal super bouncy trainers or using GPS not a map and compass, meaning she might lose her titles, wouldn't that be reported?

'But if they haven't actually been made clear by Police or CPS, then what's the source?'

Those were the sources - reported in the mirror (link in the OP) and I quoted them somewhere upthread.

The media is constrained by the Editors Code of Practice. Not adhering to this attracts hefty fines and the obligation to carry a prominent apology if a complaint is made and the newspaper is found to have breached the code. Here is the relevent section:-

12. Discrimination

i) The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual's, race, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability.

ii) Details of an individual's race, colour, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, physical or mental illness or disability must be avoided unless genuinely relevant to the story.

So The Mirror decided that Lauren being transgender was 'genuinely relevant' but the BBC and The Guardian have erred on the side of caution and decided to avoid mention. Though they have decided that mentioning Lauren's mental health or disability is OK.

Not that it's relevant but I think Jeska does look like a very athletic woman

I found the fact that they didn't mention that the attempted killer was transgender, but did mention autism, quite telling.

We've already seen that when women's rights are in conflict with MTF trans* rights, women's rights get thrown under the bus.
Now it seems that when the rights of non-NT people (not to have their disorder misleadingly suggested as the main or sole reason for a crime) come into conflict with MTF trans rights, the rights of non-NT get thrown under the bus.
So where there is a conflict of rights, it seems the people at the top of the hierarchy are the ones who grew up used to having (but very possibly not acknowledging) male privilige. Funny that.

*MTF, MTT , whatever. I understand that semantics are important but they are not part of my point, so just mentally fill in your preferred term.

I've just complained to the BBC and understand from their automated response that all complaints are collated overnight to send to team

We’ll normally include this text [from complaint] in our overnight report to BBC staff of all the complaints and other reaction we have received today (with your personal details removed). This means it will reach the right people by tomorrow morning

Would be nice if that report was full

Ralph Knibbs, Jeska's intended victim, is not just some random athletics official. He was one of the greatest rugby players never to have played for England - he turned down the chance of a cap in the 1980s because it was for a South Africa tour and he was opposed to apartheid. I'm delighted to hear that he is OK.

I think this case says everything about Jeska's massive sense of entitlement - it wasn't just that they felt they should be allowed to compete in women's athletic space, but that they were actually entitled enough to try to take the life of someone who might stand up to them over it.

This kind of entitlement is an extreme version of the entitlement that all men are socialised with to varying degrees. And while that is still the case it's not OK for men to be in women's spaces. I am deeply sorry for the women who will be forced to share a prison with Jeska.

yy powershower

I would just like to call bullshit on the notion that fell running is just for fun and not competitive

Well said! We may enjoy it, but fell runners are very competitive - women no less than men.

The fact that a trans athlete was winning championships was not general knowledge within the fell running community as far as I am aware.

I don't think Lauren looks like a woman but we'll agree to differ. Lauren should not be competing in women's sporting events.

She passes as an athletic woman. It's easy to say she doesn't pass with the knowledge that she's trans, but I'm not aware that anyone in fell running knew her as anything but a woman.

The sport thing is a weird one. If we look at women who are born women, there will be some who are more physically "womanly" and some who are more "manly". The "natural born" women who are best at sports will tend to be skinnier )for endurance sports) and have higher levels of testosterone etc. Is gender binary or is it a scale? Where we have the likes of Caster Semenya hovering around the "arbitrary" line between male and female. Women's sport is just saying we are going to class everyone on this side of the line as equal. In sport terms transgender is at some level a "conscious" decision to change you place on the scale. is it any more fair that the physically stronger/manly woman beats the more "womanly" woman? Is it fair because genetics is chance? Whereas transgender is choice?

Woodifer it is not about gender it is about sex, which is binary (except for intersex people where the two sex's both contribute). Trans people are not likely to be interesex, and they may well say they have no choice. Which is why we need simple clear standards and parameters.

Saying some women are 'womanly' is nonsense, if they are strong women, fast women, they are just women! But a male can look or act as womanly as they like, they are not womanly! So it must come down to parameters male and female. We cannot complain if some women are faster, that's the point, to be fast. It doesn't make them men.

Caster Semenya allegedly has intersex traits. She's not intergender. Gender has nothing to do with anything. Sport is split by sex due to biological differences in men and women so Lauren Jeska who is a man should be competing with other men. People who have intersex conditions are a grey area but they're also absolutely nothing to do with transgenderism.

Quite apart from the obvious rightness of all the points made here, it looks like ideally there is going to have to be a different category for transgenders to compete in.

Any progress on the definition of woman yet?

I swear I've been asking this for about 2 years.

the sport thing is not a weird one. it is dividing on biological sex. gender is completely irrelevant, as is personality and stereotyping.

Quite apart from the obvious rightness of all the points made here, it looks like ideally there is going to have to be a different category for transgenders to compete in.

That'll never work. Like unisex bathrooms, it's invalidating and othering. Most trans people don't want a compromise. They want everything their desired sex gets.

amateur running at least tends to divide by age as well as sex, alongside 'open' categories. the idea is to have as equal a playing field as possible and encourage everyone. if a 20 year old self identifies as over 60, is that ok ? no!!