- To not want to move back to Australia under these circumstances?

[justilou]

We are living in Europe and barely scraping by. We've been here 7 years and we're both over it. My husband's job is great, but I can't work here. He is talking about moving back to Aus and taking a giant step backwards professionally - we would still be broke, but I could work there. When we moved here, it was for his professional development and the understanding was that when we moved back, I could study and further my career - I can't see that happening with three kids and a job, can you? He sees this position as a foot in the door, but he's 40 and I'm really tired of starting over again with nothing. If he does end up changing jobs, we'd have to move the kids and change schools AGAIN! I would be happy to go back to Aus, to work and to study, but I'm exhausted trying to make ends meet. Should I put my foot down and insist that he wait for a better position?

If you can't work where you are now why haven't you studied now?

There's plenty of distance learning courses available.

It sounds like you're unhappy where you are so moving back a least gets you no n the place you want to be.

Insisting your DH gets a better job sounds both unrealistic and unfair.

The specific course I want to study doesn't offer online study as most of it is clinical placements. (Also - we can't afford it.)

Oh, and I'm not insisting on the better job just for money, but because it's several steps back professionally and I think he'd be miserable. It's a long way to go for a stopgap job, and that's going to have a big impact on the kids. (10, 10, 12)

I think you have to accept that things don't always work out how you want them to and work out what the least worst option is now.

It sounds petulant to say you won't move back unless he gets a better job when you don't like where you are and you can't work there.

I'm not saying I won't move back, but I don't want to under these conditions - they're all practical. The cost of living in Australia is extremely high, my daughter has landed a place in a Gymnasium school (they accept academic top 5%) and there is no equivalent in Australia. (It's all just high school there) I have lived with him when he was unhappy at work and it nearly broke us up. Yes, I have things I want to do, but my main priority is keeping things happy for my kids - which includes a happy relationship with my husband - who is a total doll and is not forcing anything.... we just really wish we had a crystal ball right now.

Why would he be stepping back professionally. Has he sounded out any employers, employment agencies in Australia?

The government high school I went to had roughly 200 kids per year of which I would guess half went on to University, including virtually the whole of one form (@ 30 kids) class going to study Medicine. My school compared favourably with the private schools.

I do agree that the cost of living is higher, although to some degree the salaries are higher that offsets some of this. Housing particularly in Queensland is more in line I found to UK.

I find the people more open to outsiders as quite often they themselves don't have relatives to fall back on and friends take on these roles.

Have the kids been to Australia? Of my three, only the eldest wants to live in Oz.

The climate also means that the kids can do a lot of out door activities for free.

Are you not actually allowed to work there? Is it just that you see yourself in a particular career role and you can't do that specifically there?

I think you need to take some steps yourself if you want things to change. Open Universities in Australia has lots of courses, and you could at least start a course, even if it's not exactly what you want, and you could change to another course when you arrive. Or find out what it would take to actually get a job (change visa?) where you are.

You're just sitting back saying "nope" without offering any concrete solutions for how you can contribute as well.

and there is no equivalent in Australia. (It's all just high school there)
I don't know about all states, but NSW has selective high schools, and entrance to them is quite competitive (academic standards are quite high, especially for the most elite schools - all state run), although probably not as much as a German (I presume) gymnasium.

YANBU. You can't go uprooting the kids for a 'backwards step' job for DH, especially one you know he will be unhappy in & on top of that doesn't pay enough. Yes you can get a job, but then who will do all the ferrying around of the kids, school holiday care, wrap around care etc?

Just a few of my thoughts, you don't have to answer them if you don't want to 😊

It costs a lot of money to move a family back, in both actual costs & setting up costs etc. If you are just scraping by, can you afford to do it?

However, I do think you need to make some plans. You are rapidly approaching the point at which you moving will affect the exam years schooling of the children and shockingly quickly they'll then be of an age where they could choose to remain in Europe if they don't want to go to Aus.

Where do each of you want to live?

You have 3 children rapidly approaching exam years - IMO you need to decide is that's where you are, back in Aus or elsewhere.

This is a BIGGIE - Your DD has got a place at a Gymnasium school - there's not be in Australia. Are you sure? Can you justify denying her this place?

You can't work where you are. Will you work if you go back to Australia? Doing something in your career or just so,etching that earns some money?

You can't study what you want to where you are - but do you still want to? Do you think you could - time wise, financially?

Can your DH not get a better paid job where you are?

I can promise you that there are no Gymnasium-style schools in Australia. High Schools are either Public (Government) or Private (Mega-expensive). Some are good and some are not. Regardless of whether they are public or private, they do not stream the schools academically like they do here in Europe, and finding one that teaches classical languages (her passion) is virtually impossible. Most schools encourage modern languages like Mandarin, Japanese or Indonesian (makes sense when you look at Australia's international trade, etc) or traditional French & German. I found one that offers Latin and the school cost... wait for it.... $70,000 per year. (Almost the sum total of the salary he's considering - so out of the question)

If we go back to Australia, he will still be travelling for work - which I'm accustomed to here, but I will also be expected to do the kid taxi-ing. It is highly unlikely that we will be able to afford to live near any "good" schools and public transport in most cities is both unreliable and expensive. (Not to mention, often dangerous - depending where you live). I can sing at weddings to get money but it takes a year or so to establish clientele. (Most people book their wedding singers 12-18 months prior to the day). Also, I will be looking after the kids every weekend because his job will involve working all weekend, every weekend - so I would have to pay someone to look after them or take them with me, which is soooooo not ideal for anyone. While t's not what I want to do - it's workable, and I'm more than happy to do it - meanwhile, how do I study and do the rest?

I don't mean to sound like a petulant, spoiled wife... I'm definitely not that. I'm genuinely worried about it all. We don't have the money to send our furniture back to Aus - (and it's not worth it, either) - Nor could we afford to furnish a house. (Very few available furnished) Rent in most cities is more than London prices for a pretty unimpressive house in a pretty dodgy area, food is at least twice as expensive, taxes, medical bills, medicines, utilities - all MUCH more expensive. I don't think we can do it. He's a romantic soul and is hoping we'll be happier there than we are here, but I think it will be worse. He already puts too much pressure on himself to carry the weight of the family as it is.

Why do you need s school that teaches latin? She could always have a tutor if she was desperate to learn latin instead of doing a different extra curricular activity.

Latin is pretty much useless other than as an academic exercise anyway. Even we lawyers are told not to use it.

What would you have to do to work in the uk? Maybe make that your goal.

Whereabouts this job is would make a huge difference to whether you could afford to live on $70k a year or not. DH and I have just moved to Sydney and he is on more than double that (I don't work) and we have to watch what we're spending to ensure we can save every month. If you're up in Newcastle or down in Bendigo in Victoria then I imagine $70k could be doable.

Having said that, we are finding, on the whole, that the cost of living is about on par with London, or maybe even slightly less. I am definitely spending less on food. Transport is cheaper (though we lived further out in London than we do here) and we have signed up for a car-sharing service for the odd occasion when we do want a car.

I would say YANBU. Moving out here has been tough and I have spent many nights crying over financial worries. And that's mostly because we made an active decision to leave our savings in the UK and start from scratch here, I can't even imagine how I would have coped without having any funds to fall back on. It's a fantastic country, but if you're going to be the same/worse off, I would stay put.

I can promise you that there are no Gymnasium-style schools in Australia. High Schools are either Public (Government) or Private (Mega-expensive). Some are good and some are not. Regardless of whether they are public or private, they do not stream the schools academically like they do here in Europe, and finding one that teaches classical languages (her passion) is virtually impossible. Most schools encourage modern languages like Mandarin, Japanese or Indonesian (makes sense when you look at Australia's international trade, etc) or traditional French & German. I found one that offers Latin and the school cost... wait for it.... $70,000 per year. (Almost the sum total of the salary he's considering - so out of the question)
If Latin is so important, than I'd keep looking at schools. The first selective high school I looked at was James Ruse Ag College, which is probably one of the hardest schools in the state to get into. does latin and is a state school - so, basic fees. You'll find a private school that does Latin a lower fees.
This may be useless to you as it is NSW, but I am just using it as an example.

There is a school in Adelaide which is excellent and offers a language entrance for those outside zone if they commit to studying two languages AND if they pass the test.

Adelaide High.

I live in Adelaide and DO understand your concerns re. academics here but having said that, there are still some good schools and a child with your DD's passion will find her outlet somehow.

The cost of living is high in one way but not in another. We find that we spend very little on entertainment as there's so much to do and see for free.

We came back here for similar reasons. Tired of being poor in England we thought that being a bit poor in Oz would be easier...and it is. A LOT easier.

Re. furniture etc...we left all ours. We sent a few crates of books and ornaments and toys ahead of us and left all our crap furniture in the UK.

Gave it away.

We now have new crap furniture! We got all ours from OP shops and some of it I am not ashamed to say, we picked up off the streets on hard rubbish collection days!

I got a beautiful table dated at around 1880 from a side street. We eat all our meals around it.

Looking outside onto my vast garden....masses of gum trees and parrots flying past....I don't regret coming at all. No...I don't have the money for more than one holiday a year but our day to day life is prettier....our house is bigger, our kids can play outside and we don't worry about them.

OK going out on a limb here - maybe your DH is trying to please you. You are Australian (I'm assuming) and you're unhappy in Germany because you can't work and / or study and your DH doesn't earn 'enough'. Maybe the man is simply putting an option on the table to try to please you as (sorry) you do sound kinda petulant on here. I had to read your op a couple of times as I couldn't see your angle - did you want to stay / did you want to go. Maybe like Violet he thinks it might be better to be poor in Australia than poor in Germany ?

Melbourne has a few very strong selective state schools which get brilliant year 12 results. Look at Macroberyson and university high.

Also your daughter should be looking at scholarships at private schools that offer Latin.

Are you originally Australian? Where would you be going back to, which state, which area?

I don't know anything about selective schools, so can't help with that but if you can live outside of a city, you'd get better rental prices and in NSW, the rail travel to Sydney from at least 2h outside (I live that far away from Sydney) is not expensive at all, at least not in comparison with e.g. the airport route IN Sydney. Again, can't answer for other states.

Yes, it's expensive to live here - except for fuel costs which are still way cheaper than e.g. the UK.

But it sounds like it's all really hingeing around your DH's job and the backward step he'd be taking - but why? If he moved to Europe to advance his career, why is this not going to translate to an advancement when he gets back to Australia? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless he's being a bit of a tit about it.

OP - you said you can't afford to study - you can loan? I'm assuming you're Australian because of the term "move back"

smellsof - am impressed you spend less on food here than in the UK - I find food viciously expensive in comparison (although I gather prices in the UK have risen somewhat since I was last there). Where do you shop, just Coles and Woollies, or do you shop at Aldi?

Thumb do you really? I must say I don't find it too expensive at all...meat in particular seems cheaper. Some things are lacking....bakeries in supermarkets are beyond awful for instance....but that just means I visit a specialist bakery for that kind of thing...it's not especially expensive though.

I think you and your husband need to sit down together - preferably for a decent length of time without children and in a calm place and discuss this issue because just reading your OP there are loads of issues here.

I am an emigrant so I know the dislocation that brings. I also seriously considered moving back to home country at exactly the ages your children are at so I know how hard that is as a decision. things I would consider if I were you and your dh are:

1. where really do you want to live? Are you ok with your children being German (did I get that right?). Do you miss Australia? Do you miss family?

1. How realistic is your singing career in either continent? Could you switch it into something else - teaching/tutoring/choir? It strikes me if you are a singer and rising 40 it is unlikely you are really going to hit the big time. Which is fine if you don't need the money but if you do maybe you need to start looking sideways into something that could bring in more money.

1. Could you look at what your dh does and similarly think how he could make more money/more of a life where you are?

1. Moving is really really expensive. Moving home is the same. If you are at the skin of your teeth now, moving will put your further into debt. You really need to know if it is worth it.

1. I don't agree with those saying loads of schools in australia and latin is irrelevant anyway. It isn't and moving her dd at this point and cutting off a real academic interest could have real impacts in their family. This isn't a 4 year old saying he likes unicorns but a pre-teen showing a real interest in an academic subject in her home country - to be swooped off to a different continent and told "well that subject isn't taught here but is irrelevant anyway" will probably not have her nodding her head saying "no problem"

OP I think you should start seriously looking at why you are barely scraping by where you are - and ask yourselves what would be different in Australia.