Benefit Britain - the irony

[Mhoys]

Years ago there was no Housing Benefit as far as I remember - talking about growing up in the 1960s. Or even Child Tax Benefits, etc etc. Now it seems so many people get these, even people working in reasonably good jobs. The Government is meant to be anti-benefits but expenditure on all this must be significant. Some of this may be due to a small rise in living standards since then. But also have wages become so low relative to living costs, that the state is effectively subsidising private enterprise? There is nothing necessarily wrong with this I guess, but isn't the government "in denial" when few ordinary people could afford a family or rent or buy a home in the South at least , so the taxpayer/State has to stump up? I have some thoughts but am also genuinely puzzled ...

YANBU! I have been thinking the same for along time. Those thinking that the OP is being goady obviously don't understand the point the OP was making.

Housing costs have risen massively compared to wages, so people are going to struggle.

In the street I grew up in, most people owned their houses but it wasn't a wealthy street. Lots of SAHMs and a few middle management but also some manual workers. My friend's parents were a bus driver and a part time home hairdresser. Their house is now worth over £300,000, so only really affordable for two decent salaries.

As house prices have increased so have rents. There is so little social housing so people have insecure tenancies where the landlords can keep increasing rents. Ex council properties are generally out of the reach of those they were intended for.

Ironically, it was the rise in benefits, especially tax credits and unlimited housing benefit, that caused the house price inflation in the first place. It's simple economics - supply and demand. If wages were increased, then house prices and rents would also increase, so no difference.

Is it fair that a person working 16 hours alongside a person working 40 hrs doing the same job takes home more with tax credits than the full timer.
Of course it isn't.
Tax credits have been a disaster for low paid workers who DON'T have children.
That is the problem, that is why the working poor are the childless, the single, the young.
The people with children can afford low paid jobs, topped up by tax credits.
The companies love this, workers not entitled to tax credits not so much.
To not see the link is bizzare.
But we must not shine light into the unfairness of the benefit system.
Hence the name calling, debate stifling gnashing of teeth.

I've had rather a lot of cider ....

just read the Economist

the OP is not being goady.

She has realised that the emperor has no clothes

if only those who read the tabloids (owned by tax evading offshore multimillionaires) would do the same

It is very wrong that companies like tesco etc pay minimum wages and make a lot of money for shareholders while tax payers have to supplement their wages. Minimum wage is £1,100 a month or so. With two earning: £2,200 or so. How many people can afford to bring up a family on this without extra help- esp in Home Counties where rent would be about £1500 a month. It is not right that the extra help comes from govt - paid for by tax payers - while tesco etc make huge profits. Not singling out tesco, all the retailers, hoteliers, restaurants are the same .

What changed in the 1960s/1970s?

Townsend's Poverty in the UK report in 1967 which showed the dire circumstances in which many people were living.

Cathy Come Home documentary, which showed a homeless family suffering through no fault of their own.

Both shifted policy and led to the more humane welfare system we have today (or what is left of it).

One thing that has been missed on this thread is all the industry being shut down.whole communities put on benefits that would otherwise of gone in to coal, steel,mills,car manufacturing ,gas,..yrs ago people had jobs.son followed dad in to local industry....all now shut down...whole communities on benefits ,products imported ...at what expense????

OP isn't being goady. It's a legitimate point and it isn't at all about having a go at people on benefits. The cost of living has not risen in line with wages in this country. Therefore the government is having to subsidise so many families, even those families where two parents work, to enable them to have shelter and eat.

This is not ok. This is government subsidising business and shareholder profits. Companies need to pay a true living wage and have lower profits as a result, the government won't have such a high benefits bill and can spend some more on health and social care instead.

Zero fucking clue about how we achieve that though.

Come back OP. Not everyone is an idiot.

Low wages have always been a problem though, especially for semi- or unskilled private sector workers.

When we were first married, 25 years ago, my husband brought home £100 a week. Our rent was £300 a month. I was struggling to find work, so I went to the job centre to sign on whilst I looked, and was told he should be supporting me. So after we paid our rent we had approximately £100 a month for food, bills, council tax and everything else.

However, if wages go up, then costs go up exponentially, so making companies raise wages will just put prices up and there would be no net gain. Whilst the government is topping up wages, prices are kept lower so inflation figures look good.

"In the late 90s i saw 50p an hour jobs advertised in the Jobcentre £1.50 an hour and £50 a week. (my rent then was £48 a week) and there wasnt even working tax credits for the childless/childfree back then.

The low wages happened first."

Tax credits replaced Family Credit, introduced by John Major's government. They have existed in various guises since the early 70s: I think it was Ted Heath's government that first introduced this type of benefit.

luncbox
the fact that UK industry ceased to be competitive has been EASED by benefits, not exacerbated

Government needs to raise minimum wage in accordance with the area...so someone doing a full time job should expect a fully time salary of a decent wage..£2000 minimum..no need for benefits.....but oh no sadly huge companies think bhs,won't make enough profit so the government won't force that throu

small rise in living standards
Small?!

Okayyyy

I don't think the Op was goady either.

Ta1.. So much industry was shut down,when they could of invested in it

Ta1kinpeece there were suggested minimum wages however they did not become law until Labour in the late 1990s. As PP say jobs were advertised at 50p an hour in the 90s.
I think you're quite short sighted to rant on about Labour/Blair/Brown, the roots of the current problems are borne out of the past centuries economics, globalisation and politics.
Just because the UK "should" be ablt to stand up to big business does not mean that it does- I mean why don't they just increase the NMW to £15 per hour in that case?

Want to know where most of the money goes in the 'benefits' budget?

Pensions.

As an island,would it not be better for us to try as much as possible to be self sufficient and open up our industries again....less importing costs ,less carbon footprint.play to our strengths so to speek

Well theer's a steady steam of companies quietly setting up in Dublin since the brexit vote and believe me they are getting tax breaks and a well educated English speaking workforce all rolled up in an EU base...

If people think she's being goady then they have either not read her post properly or failed to understand it. There is nothing benefit bashing about it but some people on here seem to just see the word "benefit" and get angry!

housing is surely responsible for a good chunk of it, certainly down here in the southeast

It seems perverse to me that a person could be employed, full time, maybe even in a household with two earners, and no make enough to have a roof over their heads without government intervention

i do not begrudge anyone benefits, but how can a society structured like that be sustainable?

lunchbox
As an island,would it not be better for us to try as much as possible to be self sufficient and open up our industries again
Britain has been in the import / export trade for over 5000 years

you want self sufficiency ... shall we start to list the foods you'll no longer have ;-)

Tax credits for working people are fairly recent though. Certainly when I was a SAHM in the nineties we had no extra help on top of DH's quite low wage.