Benefit Britain - the irony

[Mhoys]

Years ago there was no Housing Benefit as far as I remember - talking about growing up in the 1960s. Or even Child Tax Benefits, etc etc. Now it seems so many people get these, even people working in reasonably good jobs. The Government is meant to be anti-benefits but expenditure on all this must be significant. Some of this may be due to a small rise in living standards since then. But also have wages become so low relative to living costs, that the state is effectively subsidising private enterprise? There is nothing necessarily wrong with this I guess, but isn't the government "in denial" when few ordinary people could afford a family or rent or buy a home in the South at least , so the taxpayer/State has to stump up? I have some thoughts but am also genuinely puzzled ...

[Tiredbutfuckingfine]

Lunchbox for xmas would you fancy paying £10 for a globally recognised brand gift or £50 for a uk made one? Because you can already male those choices.
The import isn't expensive, the cost of labour and the profits are.

[HelenaDove]

Talkinpeece how is the guy who was living in the cemetery getting on now?

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

Well it won't be sustainable for ever..give it 30 yrs and child benefit will be long gone.kids will be seen as a lifestyle choice...and any help needed will be in stamps for milk and clothes...everything goes full circle.look at history to see our future.....

[toastymarshmallow]

The hand wringing that went on in business circles when the National Living Wage was announced made me sick.

IMO business bosses don't consider themselves responsible for the people they employ. Which is wrong. People have been made expendable, and the increase of zero hours contracts has fuelled that. Loyalty doesn't seem to be valued any more. It is all about the bank balance of the boss.

When a company is making millions in profits and its staff have no job security, and their wages are as low as possible and need to be topped up, that is wrong. But the people who are vilified are the workers, not the bosses.

And if you can't afford to pay your staff a proper living wage then your business is not viable.

[smallfox2002]

"Ironically, it was the rise in benefits, especially tax credits and unlimited housing benefit, that caused the house price inflation in the first place. It's simple economics - supply and demand. If wages were increased, then house prices and rents would also increase, so no difference"

That is quite frankly bollocks.

House prices have increased for a number of reasons but over the last 30 years the major drivers have been the fact that we have under built by about 200,000 homes every year. Supply and demand indeed. Also things like credit being more available, women's incomes being allowed to be included, larger multiples of income allowed.

There are numerous studies that show that HB is a result of the above, not a determinant. If it was, why when benefits have been capped have rents continued to rise?

[ItsJustNotRight]

Trade Unions have become demonised, so many people shudder at the mere mention of them. It would be good if more people read some history and understood the function of trade unions in raising living standards and improving employment rights. People run businesses to make money, the less they pay out, the more they keep for themselves and their shareholders. Workers at minimum wage end are just disposal commodities to employers. It is only when you to get highly skilled/professional jobs that employment terms and conditions improve because the resource pool is smaller, recruitment more difficult and training costs higher therefore employers have to make concessions to retain those workers. Trade unions are even more important for minimum wage jobs and membership among the young is very low.

[JellyBelli]

OP is right. the tax payers are subsidising business by topping up wages with benefits. The Tories are a bunch of hypocrites who have basically been forced to act with a minimum of decency.
For now.But things are changing.

Many large companies are changing their contracts so workers will only be employed part time. If they want full time hours they have to hope they can get 2 shifts a week.
This discriminates agaisnt people who claim tax credits, such as single parents and the disabled trying to return to work; they are not permitted to apply for those jobs as the tax situation is too complicated.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

I just think government was to hasty to shut down industry .long term it's not a good idea...look at brexit.they can demand who we can and can't trade with.and how we leave...I'm just thinking about control really..self sufficient just seems less risky

[PikachuSayBoo]

Totally agree.

Big corporations get away with paying shit wages. The govt make up the shortfall that people need to survive and the corporations make huge profits. At the expense of everyone.

Companies like Amazon, starbucks, sports dirct, etc paying low wages/zero hours contracts and they get away with it. And exploit tax loopholes.

[ItsJustNotRight]

However... The government is still doing all it can to shaft the doctors, even they aren't safe these days

[RowenaDahl]

I totally agree with you Op. For a lot of people (especially at the bottom of the ladder) pay hasn't kept up with the cost of living.

At least the Government have come to their senses and starting to address the situation.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37382504

This isn't limited to FTSE 100 companies but business in general IME.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

Say boo,yes,because the government encourages them by giving tax credits to their workers....a better way would be to demand these companies give proper contracts ,proper hours,and a proper living wage .where you can have a mortgage and still have money left over to eat..why dosnt the government demand company's do this...I have no ideA

[ItsJustNotRight]

It's not that companies are "getting away with" - their actions are being led by government policy, that's how the Tories want to run it.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

It's almost like they give tax credits supposedly helping the less well of...pat on the back for themselves..when the reality is they are just ensuring the rich get richer by not having to pay out a decent wage..why thou..what does the government get out of it...are they all shareholders in major big businesses????

[WhisperingLoudly]

Agree

It is insane that Tesco (for example) can pay low wages safe in the knowledge that the government will provide top ups. Businesses should be compelled to pay a living wage. Especially those that make profits of £354 million in a so called bad year

[ItsJustNotRight]

Lunchbox because that is what the Conservative past ands for. It's their policies, it's how they want to run things.

[ItsJustNotRight]

Amend ..Conservative party stands for.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

No because labour did the same,this isn't a recent development ....it's all governments in the last ...I don't know 30 years or so

[WomensNet]

I don't think the people giving biscuits have actually understood the OP at all. English, may not be their first language

I totally agree OP but don't know the answer. However thank God for the social security system, countries where it doesn't exit, like in third world countries, the poor just go abegging, and the divide is worst.

[ItsJustNotRight]

Lunchbox have a look at the Conservative party donor list

[ItsJustNotRight]

Hmmm that would be since Thatcher then.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

I don't get why big business are not forced to provide a proper wedge ...there should be no need for benefit if someone has a full time job..in fact I'd go so far to say that one person with a full time job ,by law should earn enough to have a decent house and have a stay at home parent caring for the children.and not need benefits...that's what governments should be aiming for

[GoodStuffAnnie]

Good thread.

Housing benefit is ludicrous. It's a landlord subsidy. It's incredible that people fall for it and don't question it. And who are the landlords. Generally rich middle class boomers. It's a subsidy to these people.yuk.

Also, tax credits just delay poverty. When your kids leave home you get a massive shock and are returned to how life should be, but you have been insulated from the hunger that you would have had if you hadn't been subsidised.

You would have studied, joined or worked for a trade union, pushed for promotion. Tax credits stifle ambition. They keep people in poverty. They're like a massive oxymoron. Keeping poor people poor. It's a bloody conspiracy.

[Lunchboxlewiswillyoumarryme]

Basically it's corrupt then.

[ShirleyKnotReboot]

"are they all shareholders in major big businesses????" Not all of them but there is a lot of shady connections.

Parliament is a big old boys club where your networking can mean that you will be in for some plum jobs when you are no longer an MP.

clicky